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| post_id ▼ | thread_id | thread_title | post_number | author_username | post_date | post_date_iso | post_body |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 340385 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 1 | TurtleTime | Mar 11, 2025 | 2025-03-11T18:48:12-0400 | Well, what do we need all these satellites and buoys for anyways? Who needs scientists and data? Good thing hurricanes and extreme weather are not on the rise.... |
| 340395 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 2 | personalityprofile | Mar 12, 2025 | 2025-03-11T22:03:18-0400 | I'm dreading the day the NBDC website stops working |
| 340397 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 3 | DJR | Mar 12, 2025 | 2025-03-11T22:08:50-0400 | TurtleTime said: Well, what do we need all these satellites and buoys for anyways? Who needs scientists and data? Good thing hurricanes and extreme weather are not on the rise.... Click to expand... Maybe somebody can get a good weather beetle and livestream it |
| 340458 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 4 | halfalpine | Mar 12, 2025 | 2025-03-12T15:58:29-0400 | Software developer here. One of my personal predictions for the first year of the Trump presidency is that Surfline (and the various free forecasting apps) will go dark. This would be due to shutting down certain public APIs as a result of “cost-cutting”. I hope I’m wrong. It’s a damn shame. Lots of NOAA employees in this surf town (Point Judith area). No one stands to benefit from dismantling this treasure of a national agency. |
| 340460 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 5 | xaaronx | Mar 12, 2025 | 2025-03-12T16:06:05-0400 | TurtleTime said: Well, what do we need all these satellites and buoys for anyways? Who needs scientists and data? Good thing hurricanes and extreme weather are not on the rise.... Click to expand... You can just control hurricanes with a sharpie. |
| 340462 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 6 | xaaronx | Mar 12, 2025 | 2025-03-12T16:14:06-0400 | And a lot of folks don't realize that all the private companies offering forecasts still depend heavily on NOAA data. |
| 340474 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 7 | Nilus | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-12T20:23:22-0400 | As much as I rely on all of it myself, maybe it will be refreshing to reset everything back to the days of "show up and see if there are waves." Now if we can just shut down the cell tower networks, too... |
| 340477 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 8 | XXX | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-12T22:21:13-0400 | Nilus said: As much as I rely on all of it myself, maybe it will be refreshing to reset everything back to the days of "show up and see if there are waves." Now if we can just shut down the cell tower networks, too... Click to expand... Right, and those losers trying to make a living fishing out of Bristol Bay? They can just learn Russian if they need to know when to head for safe harbor. Here ya' go: Гидрометцентр России |
| 340478 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 9 | Skegg | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-12T22:27:48-0400 | xaaronx said: And a lot of folks don't realize that all the private companies offering forecasts still depend heavily on NOAA data. Click to expand... This point is critical. All private weather forecasting companies that provide forecasts for the United States rely on raw data provided by NOAA, and by "rely" I mean "would not be able to forecast the weather without it." If that were to stop it would almost instantly kill all private weather reporting services in the US, not just surf forecasting. The expense and logistics that would be required to build out private versions of that infrastructure is beyond the financial capacity for any of those companies. Even if a company did somehow find the money, it would take several years (potentially decades) to implement and build up comparable capacity... and that assumes there's a viable market dynamic to support such an investment. |
| 340489 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 10 | Midlength Fan | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T00:23:18-0400 | Feeling seriously apprehensive about this (among so many other things...) :-( |
| 340494 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 11 | Beachfront | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T00:45:37-0400 | xaaronx said: And a lot of folks don't realize that all the private companies offering forecasts still depend heavily on NOAA data. Click to expand... TurtleTime said: Well, what do we need all these satellites and buoys for anyways? Who needs scientists and data? Good thing hurricanes and extreme weather are not on the rise.... Click to expand... Weird framing considering these things aren't disappearing |
| 340498 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 12 | Driftwood | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T02:05:52-0400 | Great thread. Thanks for posting it and for the comments. |
| 340506 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 13 | personalityprofile | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T07:16:20-0400 | Beachfront said: Weird framing considering these things aren't disappearing Click to expand... But like half the people that maintain and develop them just lost their jobs. Hard to imagine a scenario where these indiscriminate layoffs don't affect the service that NOAA provides. |
| 340507 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 14 | SeniorGrom | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T07:37:29-0400 | ‘IMAGINE’ the earth cooling, high-speed rail lines, growing ice caps, electric everything, carbon neutrality, no competition, smarter humans, no apprehension, and your Apple watch still performs………… |
| 340511 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 15 | miscreant | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T08:36:26-0400 | To think that we'll no longer have data regarding wether as a result of this restructuring seems pretty silly. feels like that "henny penny" story my mom read to me as a kid. |
| 340514 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 16 | NCJohn | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T09:21:09-0400 | miscreant said: To think that we'll no longer have data regarding wether as a result of this restructuring seems pretty silly. feels like that "henny penny" story my mom read to me as a kid. Click to expand... Apparently that book was not read to our current president as a kid. I believe a little critical thinking would support the conclusion that indiscriminate firings at the agency will lead to at least short-term issues with the quality and timing of data coming out of NOAA which could have major ramifications beyond our tiny surfing world. Surf forecasting was born from the same developments in weather forecasting that our military used to successfully plan and execute D-Day landings and all the other landings throughout the pacific campaign during the war. Every day I find it harder and harder to understand how any one can continue to support the current administrations policies and actions. And no I'm not a Democrat or a Republican. I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal - would love to see more efficiency in government and a more open and accepting society which i don't believe are mutually exclusive. I don't believe our current trajectory is going to get us there on the fiscal side and obviously not on the social side. |
| 340541 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 17 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T13:56:49-0400 | halfalpine said: Software developer here. One of my personal predictions for the first year of the Trump presidency is that Surfline (and the various free forecasting apps) will go dark. This would be due to shutting down certain public APIs as a result of "cost-cutting". I hope I'm wrong. It's a damn shame. Lots of NOAA employees in this surf town (Point Judith area). No one stands to benefit from dismantling this treasure of a national agency. Click to expand... national agency and treasure should never be mentioned in the same breath.. |
| 340545 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 18 | TurtleTime | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T14:10:07-0400 | ok, ok...they are not getting rid of satellites, just the people that use them to make statements and issue warnings about the risks associated with on coming storms and other life threatening emergencies. this agency should be a source of national pride. and I dunno about the sky falling, but we are running the national jet ski directly into the cliff at 100' nazzare. meanwhile if tesla subsidization by the US tax payer stopped, we wouldn't have to cut shit. |
| 340551 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 19 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T14:23:45-0400 | They had a staff of a whopping 13,000 employees.. they cut approximately 1,000 of them and a lot of them were re-commissioned into NWS which is under the NOAA umbrella… Every other company in the world has occasional layoffs and restructuring... because its associated with Trump people think its somehow unique and world ending. I mean come on, is a round of layoffs and an audit of the taxpayer funds that go blindly to a government agency really considered "gutting"? And is it inherently a terrible, terrible thing..? The lights will stay on. |
| 340556 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 20 | XXX | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T14:58:34-0400 | seabird said: They had a staff of a whopping 13,000 employees.. they cut approximately 1,000 of them and a lot of them were re-commissioned into NWS which is under the NOAA umbrella… Every other company in the world has occasional layoffs and restructuring... because its associated with Trump people think its somehow unique and world ending. I mean come on, is a round of layoffs and an audit of the taxpayer funds that go blindly to a government agency really considered "gutting"? And is it inherently a terrible, terrible thing..? The lights will stay on. Click to expand... Check your facts. The number is 1,200 NOAA employees on top of 2,000 already let go. How many went to the National Weather Service (in your opinion)? |
| 340557 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 21 | NCJohn | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T15:10:22-0400 | It's not the layoffs, it's the way they have been carried out. Randomly and chaotically. Now, the probationary employees are being reinstated. Think of the time and tax payer dollars being wasted here. Now extrapolate that across the entire federal government. Isn't that what the administration is trying to stop? Again, I'm not a fan of either party but this administration is just embarrassing itself and our country. They need to get it together, fast. And the minority party needs to step it up, too. |
| 340558 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 22 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T15:19:33-0400 | XXX said: Check your facts. The number is 1,200 NOAA employees on top of 2,000 already let go. How many went to the National Weather Service (in your opinion)? Click to expand... Firstly, a lot of the numbers are pure speculation, you and I do not know exactly. With the above post I wasn't taking those 2,000 into account because 1.) it brought the total number of employees down to 12,000, which was deemed as "average" capacity for the agency.. why would we even be talking about grave/gutting layoffs if the # total employees was above average and they trimmed it down to average? and 2.) again, it's hearsay and a lot of the employees were probationary and not long term staff, and have been reinstated in some way... The number that shifted positions is unknown, not an opinion. All I'm saying here is that it is healthy to have some skepticism of large government agencies, even if the agency is involved in the welfare of humanity. The fact that the agency operates for the welfare of humanity is sadly a blanket that shields it from skepticism and judgement. No entity should have this immunity. Science is now absolutely political.. The belief that NOAA and NWS are inherently good (just like folks thought FEMA was inherently good and efficient and practical) is off base. It's our duty to look into these things and make sure the money is used properly! Maybe not executed in the right manner as @NCJohn is saying, but potentially net beneficial. My guess is that nothing changes, NOAA operates exactly as before. |
| 340559 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 23 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T15:25:05-0400 | Would love to get input from anyone that works for either NWS or NOAA. There has to be someone on Jamboards that has some actual evidence from the ground. |
| 340563 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 24 | Bruce Fowler | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T16:16:20-0400 | Skegg said: This point is critical. All private weather forecasting companies that provide forecasts for the United States rely on raw data provided by NOAA, and by "rely" I mean "would not be able to forecast the weather without it." If that were to stop it would almost instantly kill all private weather reporting services in the US, not just surf forecasting. The expense and logistics that would be required to build out private versions of that infrastructure is beyond the financial capacity for any of those companies. Even if a company did somehow find the money, it would take several years (potentially decades) to implement and build up comparable capacity... and that assumes there's a viable market dynamic to support such an investment. Click to expand... It's is massively shortsighted if not downright irresponsible to be doing a 78 RPM hack job of the Fed. Is there some Waste? Fraud? Redundancy? Sure, there is in ANY government bureaucracy on Earth. The rash moves being made are supported by the disinformation disseminated by the White House and their favorite state tv agency Fox. We get the strategy is to deregulate, make cuts to Social Security to the point it is so handicapped people are willing to have it privatized rather than abolished. By comparison, who needs NOAA? Entire industries above and beyond commercial fishing, aviation, agriculture....... just for starters. This hack job overthrowing of what was not only familiar, but vital & relied on is just in its infancy. For the record....... I'm Unregistered with NO party affiliation. |
| 340567 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 25 | NCJohn | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T16:46:04-0400 | Only time will tell. I don't think any NOAA or NWS employee could give you a good answer @seabird when this administration is just blindly gutting the federal government. People like Musk and Trump belong in the private sector where it's generally accepted that profit and shareholder value come before everything else (well actually Trump belongs in jail). Government entities serve different purposes. It has also been asked, how efficient is it that some private and public companies award such large pay packages to their C suites rather than reinvesting it in the business? |
| 340568 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 26 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T16:54:26-0400 | I’m just saying it’d be interesting to hear what’s being said by executives during All Hands meetings at NOAA & NWS. Definitely better information than what’s been published on the internet. |
| 340570 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 27 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:02:19-0400 | I love NOAA as much as anyone… I have generations of nautical family from Falmouth MA. Grandparents, and my parents grew up in Falmouth, 5 minutes from Woods Hole.. been going there since I was a baby. Moved there during college and stayed there postgrad working for a oceanographic research foundation on commercial fishing vessels… A surfing friend from the south shore created an app that directly integrates with NBDC data to customize your buoy requirements.. love the app and would be sad to see it go. NBDC data is really all I use and all I’ve ever used. I’m just so rattled by the corruption and malpractice found with NIH FEMA and USAID that I’m not turned off by the idea of the government taking a hard look into ALL of these big government agencies that get massive chunks of money from the great citizens of America.. |
| 340571 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 28 | mightyrime | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:10:49-0400 | I have sort of second hand experience from a neighbor who works for NOAA. She is a Marine Biologist who studies dead marine animals and how they died and if that death has factors of climate involved, and its then charted in a year over year data base. She said the DOGE crew came in un-announced and fired about a 1/3 of her department. She kept her job but said it seemed completely random the people picked. She said the was a team where they firea all the management and kept the lesser staff with no direction as to who they report to or what they do now. I agree that there is probably a need to get our government staffing in check with reality and layoffs probably need to happen...but like others said the delivery and methodology is terrible and seems random at best. |
| 340572 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 29 | NCJohn | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:24:03-0400 | Executives are saying sorry, we have no idea how this is going to play out. But please, go back to work, and try to pretend like everything is going to be fine. No one can work efficiently in that kind of environment it's just human nature. |
| 340575 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 30 | NCJohn | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:28:39-0400 | seabird said: I love NOAA as much as anyone… I have generations of nautical family from Falmouth MA. Grandparents, and my parents grew up in Falmouth, 5 minutes from Woods Hole.. been going there since I was a baby. Moved there during college and stayed there postgrad working for a oceanographic research foundation on commercial fishing vessels… A surfing friend from the south shore created an app that directly integrates with NBDC data to customize your buoy requirements.. love the app and would be sad to see it go. NBDC data is really all I use and all I've ever used. I'm just so rattled by the corruption and malpractice found with NIH FEMA and USAID that I'm not turned off by the idea of the government taking a hard look into ALL of these big government agencies that get massive chunks of money from the great citizens of America.. Click to expand... Agreed @seabird Fraud and abuse of tax payer dollars should not be tolerated. But where is the proof? All we seem to have so far are claims of fraud and abuse without hard facts and a list of DOGE savings that is inaccurate and constantly being corrected for errors and exaggerations. |
| 340576 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 31 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:35:05-0400 | NCJohn said: Agreed @seabird Fraud and abuse of tax payer dollars should not be tolerated. But where is the proof? All we seem to have so far are claims of fraud and abuse without hard facts and a list of DOGE savings that is inaccurate and constantly being corrected for errors and exaggerations. Click to expand... I mean, with NOAA specifically I haven't seen anything, no. There is absolutely hard proof on the others though- it's all published on DOGEs website… the contracts, subscriptions and all the receipts are there.. |
| 340577 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 32 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:42:34-0400 | Scroll down and take a look at the USAID contracts… absolutely mind boggling how the American government completely abuses us! www.doge.gov/savings |
| 340578 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 33 | Zzz | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:44:38-0400 | seabird said: I mean, with NOAA specifically I haven't seen anything, no. There is absolutely hard proof on the others though- it's all published on DOGEs website… the contracts, subscriptions and all the receipts are there.. Click to expand... Holy shit. If it's on the DOGE website then it must be true! Thanks for giving us the heads up. |
| 340579 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 34 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:46:40-0400 | Zzz said: Holy shit. If it's on the DOGE website then it must be true! Thanks for giving us the heads up. Click to expand... Please don't get emotional and start shit slinging. Not the purpose of any of this. Listen, it's a .gov website with actual hard data on the actual contracts that were in place… this isn't fabricated wordplay… they're hard audits. Money is traceable… if these receipts and audit trails are fabricated than we have much bigger issues. |
| 340581 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 35 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:50:42-0400 | seabird said: Please don't get emotional and start shit slinging. Not the purpose of any of this. Listen, it's a .gov website with actual hard data on the actual contracts that were in place… this isn't fabricated wordplay… they're hard audits. Money is traceable… if these receipts and audit trails are fabricated than we have much bigger issues. Click to expand... I'm a skeptic through and through, but seems hard to refute the receipts.. |
| 340582 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 36 | bobsacamano | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:52:41-0400 | If you trust anything Elon has his fingerprints on, then I have a bridge to sell you. |
| 340586 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 37 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T17:58:47-0400 | bobsacamano said: If you trust anything Elon has his fingerprints on, then I have a bridge to sell you. Click to expand... Fair point! Highly skeptical of Elon. |
| 340588 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 38 | Zzz | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T18:03:00-0400 | seabird said: Please don't get emotional and start shit slinging. Not the purpose of any of this. Listen, it's a .gov website with actual hard data on the actual contracts that were in place… this isn't fabricated wordplay… they're hard audits. Money is traceable… if these receipts and audit trails are fabricated than we have much bigger issues. Click to expand... LOL. It's not emotional. It's sarcasm. The DOGE website has been riddled with errors that they have deleted and corrected and ignored. It's well documented. The US government and its role in the world over the years is complex. If you think DOGE has systemically identified fraud and surgically removed it then that's what you believe. I'm not going to connect the nuanced dots for you here. |
| 340589 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 39 | Budthedog | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T18:06:23-0400 | seabird said: I'm a skeptic through and through, but seems hard to refute the receipts.. Click to expand... I'd heard that there were large errors on the Doge site. Like millions reported as billions. Considering the massive good agencies like USAID do/did for people around the world, not to mention the strategic importance of doing that work, it's disappointing to see the entire agency treated as if it were some sort of corrupt money-making scheme. Skepticism is good but I think doge is the agency that deserves the most of it right now. As for firings, Clinton tried reducing federal workforce and studies done since showed that the reductions ultimately cost more because independent contractors were brought in at higher rates with LESS oversight to do the same work. It sounds like the idea that there are 16 guys changing lightbulbs in every office of every agency is a myth and neoliberal propaganda. |
| 340590 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 40 | Spiral Bee | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T18:13:03-0400 | seabird said: I'm just so rattled by the corruption and malpractice found with NIH FEMA and USAID that I'm not turned off by the idea of the government taking a hard look into ALL of these big government agencies that get massive chunks of money from the great citizens of America.. Click to expand... seabird, I appreciate your sentiment, but differ from your conclusions. Nobody likes corruption and malpractice. And nobody does corruption and malpractice better than this Administration. These are not the doctors you want to treat the perceived ailment. They're not going after agencies to save taxpayer money for the great citizens of America. They don't give two s***s about us. If they did, they wouldn't waste uncountable millions (some estimates up to a couple billion) to satisfy their "anti-woke" wet dreams, like renaming the Gulf of Mexico and Mt. Denali. Largely, they want to sweep away restraints on agencies that regulate the companies of Musk and Co., that hinder the Administration's desire to replicate Putin's regime on US soil, or that do not willingly bend scientific truth in the service of fossil fuel or other profits. If we think they're trying to regulate waste, fraud and abuse, we're being taken for a ride. |
| 340591 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 41 | NCJohn | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T18:19:25-0400 | seabird said: Please don't get emotional and start shit slinging. Not the purpose of any of this. Listen, it's a .gov website with actual hard data on the actual contracts that were in place… this isn't fabricated wordplay… they're hard audits. Money is traceable… if these receipts and audit trails are fabricated than we have much bigger issues. Click to expand... @seabird . I couldn't agree more we need to be able to talk things out in our country without coming to blows. I quickly looked at the website and see where fraud is mentioned. However in the section with the wall of receipts I only see support for canceled grants, leases, and contracts. Total individual taxpayer savings $715.26. Not getting a hard on here I disagree with you, but I'd still ship you a board, for a fee jk jk. peace I'm out. |
| 340597 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 42 | TurtleTime | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T19:07:04-0400 | a healthy skepticism of ALL our public agencies is good, sure yes. Seems to me just overhauling the pentagon and auditing there would be a great start before any program that the people use and rely upon. Revolving door of politicians>defense industry>corporate world is the issue. 1. wtf is Doge? it has no legal authority, does it? Hey let's create another govt. agency, you know, the things they supposedly hate. 2. wtf would any administrator allow any of these gastapo geeks in? I mean do they show up with law enforcement? Otherwise I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. Look, we all want our tax $$ well spent...however we have just re-enabled a whole 'nother level of raiding the public coffers for the elite. Socialism for the rich and corporations, rugged capitalism for the rest. All these people with families and mortgages getting laid off, 'Merica, fuck yeah! see you on the cheese lines.... you guys do understand that in the 1950's the corporate tax rate was about 50%? now he wants to drop it to 15%.....I can't imagine why the maths don't line up....we can't have nice things when this is the case. |
| 340600 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 43 | seabird | Mar 13, 2025 | 2025-03-13T19:11:53-0400 | Regardless, good thread @TurtleTime . It's interesting hearing other people's perspectives. Usually threads on here are pretty polarized, this one seems to have a lot of people actually saying the same thing.. maybe I'm being naive. Time will tell |
| 340604 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 44 | Midlength Fan | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-13T20:03:37-0400 | I can't speak for agencies like NOAA, but....universally, in all the jobs I have worked in my life (from high school teacher to food service and janitorial before I began my teaching career) when someone unfamiliar with how things actually function in a workplace comes in and starts throwing their weight around, it amounts to a hostile takeover. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING suffers. Even worse if staffing cuts force people to do more with less. It simply is not possible to serve their clientele at the same level, and there is massive burnout. |
| 340613 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 45 | TheEL | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-13T21:12:44-0400 | Bryce said: NOAA employee here. Let's hear your questions Click to expand... Been wondering how you've been faring through all this. Glad to see you stated employee and not ex-employee. I'll bite. 1) any idea if the free ndbc buoy APIs will stay active and free? 2) what is your opinion of the cuts they made? needed? has it caused chaos within the org? 3) what is morale like around the org these days? Hope you've been well, dude! Lets surf! |
| 340623 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 46 | JJ_ | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T02:16:58-0400 | seabird said: Regardless, good thread @TurtleTime . It's interesting hearing other people's perspectives. Usually threads on here are pretty polarized, this one seems to have a lot of people actually saying the same thing.. maybe I'm being naive. Time will tell Click to expand... Nah I'm with you and I think a lot of people agree too but putting it to words and sticking your neck out ain't easy Most fraud and abuse is done on individual level but waste is systemic in the sense that a certain % could be cut with no impact on the rights of the people (yes here we go). I see the whole thing in general as putting pressure on a system/people thats extremely reluctant if not incapable of self correcting when it goes astray from its duties and unwilling to cut things that don't serve the general public or "American way of life", which as dumb as it sounds is the appropriate role of the federal govt (not funding special interests or protecting the jobs of its workforce). And for the most part anything above that should take place at the state level or in the private sector. All that being said if 100% of noaa disappears outright we're fucked. The noaa by the numbers report says 46% of total US gdp is driven by coastal counties! Holy shit!!! I think that qualifies as necessary for everyone. But if the plan is to cut 20% then that would take them back to workforce numbers from like 10 years ago (if I read their budget right…) But unfortunately I don't think going agency by agency is realistic. It's fast and loose but the fact that they're bringing people back on tells me they're not just burning it to the ground and I genuinely think we're headed in the right direction. The pressure is on to come correct. This article was good: https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com And there was just a town hall in NC that was WILD if you want more of this threads energy The circus starts at 28min -Jeff |
| 340626 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 47 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T06:46:34-0400 | I think you guys guys are getting bogged down with the details... https://malcolmnance.substack.com/p/urgent-warning-trump-is-planning Written by someone with over 40 years of experience in National Security + Retired Navy Chief I hope that I come back to this post in a couple years, if JB still exists, and laugh at my paranoia. |
| 340627 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 48 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T07:05:18-0400 | seabird said: I'm just so rattled by the corruption and malpractice found with NIH FEMA and USAID that I'm not turned off by the idea of the government taking a hard look into ALL of these big government agencies that get massive chunks of money from the great citizens of America.. Click to expand... This 'revelation' of departmental fraud is a great distraction from the massive amount of fraud taking place between central government and the private sector isn't it? Classic libertarianism tactics. Also funny how a lot of the 'findings' are published to great fanfare, only to be quietly corrected at a later date by a footnote or two, in line with what the law states as an acceptable minimum. he whole rhetoric around US taxpayers propping up the rest of the rest of the world is laughable too, but I have no doubt it will help garner public support for the forthcoming imperialist attacks... |
| 340628 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 49 | RockyIsland | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T07:05:31-0400 | Not too popular in Oz now either Is This heading to George Orwells 1984 with Eurussia Ameriandian and Ochichina all carving up the globe for the big 3 superpowers |
| 340629 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 50 | slosurf | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T07:50:50-0400 | seabird said: I mean, with NOAA specifically I haven't seen anything, no. There is absolutely hard proof on the others though- it's all published on DOGEs website… the contracts, subscriptions and all the receipts are there.. Click to expand... "It's all published on DOGE's website..." If you believe that I have a bridge too sell you. But I guess you also heard it on Fox News. Pathetic. |
| 340633 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 51 | JJ_ | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T08:39:56-0400 | Planktom said: I think you guys guys are getting bogged down with the details... https://malcolmnance.substack.com/p/urgent-warning-trump-is-planning Written by someone with over 40 years of experience in National Security + Retired Navy Chief I hope that I come back to this post in a couple years, if JB still exists, and laugh at my paranoia. Click to expand... It's about nafta 2.0 not invading Canada or Mexico. |
| 340635 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 52 | bigwheels | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T09:06:50-0400 | We are adding over 1.5 Trillion dollars in debt every year. Unsustainable. The question is what of the many priorities out there should be on the funding list. |
| 340637 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 53 | XXX | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T10:10:42-0400 | bigwheels said: We are adding over 1.5 Trillion dollars in debt every year. Unsustainable. The question is what of the many priorities out there should be on the funding list. Click to expand... Speaking of priorities: "Treasury's Office of Tax Analysis estimates that the top 0.1% of earners would get a tax cut of $314,000 under a full extension of the individual and estate tax provisions, with the total cost of those tax cuts amounting to $4.2 trillion between 2026 and 2035." |
| 340638 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 54 | Driftwood | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T10:14:59-0400 | seabird said: Please don't get emotional and start shit slinging. Not the purpose of any of this. Listen, it's a .gov website with actual hard data on the actual contracts that were in place… this isn't fabricated wordplay… they're hard audits. Money is traceable… if these receipts and audit trails are fabricated than we have much bigger issues. Click to expand... Wishing to stay as objective as possible for the purposes of this forum, but the audits have been questioned - both in the press and by independant watchdog groups as showing figures that are incomplete, inaccurate, or outdated. I don't think anyone is saying outright fabricated, but like the cuts themselves, perhaps rushed and botched. |
| 340641 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 55 | Surfertom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T11:02:56-0400 | NCJohn said: Apparently that book was not read to our current president as a kid. I believe a little critical thinking would support the conclusion that indiscriminate firings at the agency will lead to at least short-term issues with the quality and timing of data coming out of NOAA which could have major ramifications beyond our tiny surfing world. Surf forecasting was born from the same developments in weather forecasting that our military used to successfully plan and execute D-Day landings and all the other landings throughout the pacific campaign during the war. Every day I find it harder and harder to understand how any one can continue to support the current administrations policies and actions. And no I'm not a Democrat or a Republican. I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal - would love to see more efficiency in government and a more open and accepting society which i don't believe are mutually exclusive. I don't believe our current trajectory is going to get us there on the fiscal side and obviously not on the social side. Click to expand... I think NC John might consider running for President. Thanks for your reasoned comment. ST |
| 340643 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 56 | takedown | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T11:33:48-0400 | seabird said: I'm a skeptic through and through, but seems hard to refute the receipts.. Click to expand... Take a look at this journalist that was the first to find issues with the DOGE tracker and continues to find issues with the "receipts". https://x.com/juddlegum?s=21 |
| 340644 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 57 | Bruce Fowler | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T11:37:26-0400 | XXX said: Speaking of priorities: "Treasury's Office of Tax Analysis estimates that the top 0.1% of earners would get a tax cut of $314,000 under a full extension of the individual and estate tax provisions, with the total cost of those tax cuts amounting to $4.2 trillion between 2026 and 2035." Click to expand... THANK YOU for pointing this out. The massive amount of cuts, more like hacks currently being executed largely indiscriminately, is paving way to justifying giving huge tax breaks to the 1% and even more so the 1/10th of 1% uber rich. The citizens at the bottomof the ladder will receive on average $750 tax relief while wealthier citizens will receive tens of thousands of dollars relief. How did we get to the largest disparity of wealth in United States history? A brief history : Aristotle stated the the rich need to be protected, but there had to be some form of welfare to help balance the wealth inequity. This differs from James Madison, who emphasized to the 'founding fathers', all wealthy white male land & slaveowners, the importance of protecting their uh, asses........ At the time the Constitution was drafted, only 6% of Americans could vote....... you had to fit the description of the previous paragraph. The Constituion didn't establish a Democracy or Democratic Republic but more correctly a Plutocracy which has been supported by Oligarchs and embraced by the Aristocracy ever since. Eventually slaves counted for 3/5ths of a vote, then in June 1919 the 19th Amendment gave women the right to vote being ratified in August 1920. Ironically it wasn't until June 2, 1924 that congress enacted the Indians Citizens Act which granted citizenship to all Native Americans. Footnote: The Constitution was an intentionally vague document, partially because it was impossible for the Framers to predict the evolution of society. The biggest flaw, considered by most historians, is the protection of slavery. James Madison argued a "Bill f… |
| 340645 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 58 | takedown | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T11:45:09-0400 | seabird said: . My guess is that nothing changes, NOAA operates exactly as before. Click to expand... I have a friend that works for the forest service, he is watching his staff get gutted and they can't operate as they did before. The stress being placed on the people remaining, who don't know if they will keep their jobs is at an all time high and they are expected to pick up the slack. Institutional knowledge is being lost at a rate much higher than it can be built. The harm being done to these organizations we won't recover from in any reasonable amount of time. The attack on the people that work here was planned. Look up Vought's comments in how he wanted to traumatize the federal workforce. |
| 340646 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 59 | takedown | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T11:48:21-0400 | seabird said: Please don't get emotional and start shit slinging. Not the purpose of any of this. Listen, it's a .gov website with actual hard data on the actual contracts that were in place… this isn't fabricated wordplay… they're hard audits. Money is traceable… if these receipts and audit trails are fabricated than we have much bigger issues. Click to expand... Are you sure it's a government website? It's not hosted on government hardware. https://fortune.com/2025/02/14/elon-musk-doge-website-hacked-hackers/ |
| 340648 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 60 | Bruce Fowler | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T12:02:44-0400 | Hoping not to light a powder keg here........ but I read the 1220 or so pages of Project 2025 and the "Mandate" is all about the dismantling of the previous government in short order. It doesn't take much imagination to suppose the 450-500 Executive Orders weren't, for the most part, thought out & pre-written by The Heritage Foundation members. What would be the purpose of that? It allows a takeover to acheive maximum effect by allowing a government that moves slower, for instance, a democracy that works by consensus opposed to an autocracy which is characterized by a small group of controlling indivduals. Furthermore, the massive amounts of Executive Orders is an attempt to set a new precedent that the Executive Branch has more power & authority than the other two branches. Conclusion? IMHO we are witnessing a heavily compromised government rapidly being morphed into an autocracy. |
| 340651 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 61 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T12:08:41-0400 | slosurf said: "It's all published on DOGE's website..." If you believe that I have a bridge too sell you. But I guess you also heard it on Fox News. Pathetic. Click to expand... I'm in my 20s - I haven't owned a tv since I lived in my parents house growing up. I don't watch Fox News. That joke, or whatever it is, is grossly overused and tired. |
| 340655 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 62 | TurtleTime | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T12:27:06-0400 | Some good commentary and debate. Thanks for playing in my NOAA thread. To Bryce at NOAA, how are the cuts impacting the work you or your colleagues do? Am I being a "henny penny"? also, the orange man is compromised completely. I mean if you didn't think he was a Russian asset before....now it is obvious. F that so. afrikaner POS, deport him and stop subsidizing his bullshit. |
| 340665 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 63 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:21:55-0400 | takedown said: Take a look at this journalist that was the first to find issues with the DOGE tracker and continues to find issues with the "receipts". https://x.com/juddlegum?s=21 Click to expand... With all due respect this guy has gotten absolutely destroyed by data scientists, ex-military, ex-gov, ex-treasury, ex-intelligence in the replies of so many of his tweets "fact checking" the receipts. He has been downright wrong. The guy has zero legitimacy / credibility. He is an influencer going up against data scientists. He was on the Hilary Clinton campaign and labels himself as a "progressive liberal" blogger/"accountability journalist". |
| 340666 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 64 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:22:43-0400 | Neoreactionary New World Order incoming Hope I'm wrong. |
| 340667 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 65 | bendy | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:27:08-0400 | View attachment Movie-Theater-Popcorn-in-a-popcorn-bucket.jpg Bruce Fowler said: Hoping not to light a powder keg here........ Click to expand... Don't worry, I brought snacks. |
| 340668 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 66 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:28:08-0400 | seabird said: He is an influencer going up against data scientists. Click to expand... This is Musk in a nutshell, right? |
| 340669 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 67 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:30:09-0400 | Planktom said: This is Musk in a nutshell, right? Click to expand... Ha ha. Again I'm not a Musk fan, but still, you can't even compare the two individuals and their accomplishments/mental capacity. Let's be real here. |
| 340671 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 68 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:38:07-0400 | Love seeing all these folks bash Elon while they cruise town in their Tesla.. haha… best selling car in California couple years running.. model Y… and it hasn’t even been close.. but yeah let’s compare him to a failed journalist turned professional tweeter… |
| 340674 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 69 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:42:33-0400 | A useful way to be real is to pull back from the detail and see the rollout of actions, and who will ultimately benefit from the endgame. That endgame is neo-imperialism, wrapped up as 'liberation/freedom', with gates open for those tech industries to do what the hell they like with humans and the planet to further their own interests. To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." The irony is, the problem with Capitalism (as political ideology rather than economic model) is that sooner or later, you run out of people and resources... |
| 340675 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 70 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:43:47-0400 | seabird said: Love seeing all these folks bash Elon while they cruise town in their Tesla.. haha… best selling car in California couple years running.. model Y… and it hasn't even been close.. but yeah let's compare him to a failed journalist turned professional tweeter… Click to expand... You value him because he owns a successful car company? |
| 340677 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 71 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:45:36-0400 | Planktom said: You value him because he owns a successful car company? Click to expand... No, it's not a value scale. It's a competence scale. It's not subjective. Elon, by creating a successful car company, in one of the most rigged and competitive car markets in the world, proves that he has more far reaching competency than a failed blogger. I trust Elons delegating skills, research skills, and auditing skills, more than a blogger who couldn't even get voted into his states legislature… |
| 340678 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 72 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:46:41-0400 | He didn't create Tesla |
| 340679 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 73 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:49:48-0400 | Planktom said: He didn't create Tesla Click to expand... Haha planktom come on. I retract created. Co-founded** This is silly. He came in as CEO 5 years into the project. It's official that he is a co-founder. Let's get back to the crux. I liked your last comment and want to keep riffing on that, not Elon. |
| 340680 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 74 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:54:43-0400 | Planktom said: The irony is, the problem with Capitalism (as political ideology rather than economic model) is that sooner or later, you run out of people and resources... Click to expand... In this specific instance, isn't what Trump admin is doing quite the opposite? They're saying "Hey, we don't need all these people, and these agencies don't need all these resources. We can operate with less." |
| 340681 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 75 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:55:14-0400 | Smart guy, no doubt, but someone who has the people's best interests at heart - doubtful, and this last point is important as he is no longer just a businessman, he is supposed to be a politician. I fear he sees no difference in either position. |
| 340682 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 76 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:57:02-0400 | seabird said: In this specific instance, isn't what Trump admin is doing quite the opposite? They're saying "Hey, we don't need all these people, and these agencies don't need all these resources. We can operate with less." Click to expand... Well see.. No doubt it will be "successful",as Trusk will simply portray it as such regardless of the real outcomes. |
| 340683 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 77 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T13:57:40-0400 | Planktom said: Well see.. No doubt it will be "successful",as Trusk will simply portray it as such regardless of the real outcomes. Click to expand... As any administration would, sadly. |
| 340684 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 78 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:04:24-0400 | XXX said: Right, and those losers trying to make a living fishing out of Bristol Bay? They can just learn Russian if they need to know when to head for safe harbor. Here ya' go: Гидрометцентр России Click to expand... Just going to pushback on this. NOAA and other very similar NGOs also fuck over commercial fishermen big time. Talk to any fishing boat captain in the US and I assure you they will share this sentiment… They have to pay out of pocket for observers to ride on their boat, share their bunks, eat their food, and monitor their catch. They already operate on ridiculously tight margins and they have to essentially profit share with fed employees to ultimately catch less fish.. Speaking from direct, direct experience.. |
| 340685 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 79 | Planktom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:05:44-0400 | A moderate democratic society welcomes independent scrutiny and criticism, regardless of political corner. It will be interesting to see if Trusk encourage or listen to any criticism in the next few years, let alone respond positively. |
| 340686 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 80 | Qustom | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:07:10-0400 | And in related news... https://qustom.com/blog/doge-raw-milk-banned-in-the-wild |
| 340687 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 81 | Budthedog | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:09:44-0400 | seabird said: In this specific instance, isn't what Trump admin is doing quite the opposite? They're saying "Hey, we don't need all these people, and these agencies don't need all these resources. We can operate with less." Click to expand... I don't think you're being disingenuous here but this is not at all what planktom was saying. Deregulation is how private companies get to make their money at the expense of people and the environment. To say what the administration is doing is the opposite of capitalism is wild. |
| 340689 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 82 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:11:01-0400 | Spiral Bee said: seabird, I appreciate your sentiment, but differ from your conclusions. Nobody likes corruption and malpractice. And nobody does corruption and malpractice better than this Administration. These are not the doctors you want to treat the perceived ailment. They're not going after agencies to save taxpayer money for the great citizens of America. They don't give two s***s about us. If they did, they wouldn't waste uncountable millions (some estimates up to a couple billion) to satisfy their "anti-woke" wet dreams, like renaming the Gulf of Mexico and Mt. Denali. Largely, they want to sweep away restraints on agencies that regulate the companies of Musk and Co., that hinder the Administration's desire to replicate Putin's regime on US soil, or that do not willingly bend scientific truth in the service of fossil fuel or other profits. If we think they're trying to regulate waste, fraud and abuse, we're being taken for a ride. Click to expand... Thanks for the classy reply Spiral. Not picking on you or the comment as it was just a profit example, and a good one at that, but you did mention fossil fuels… so would you say that offshore wind turbines are a better alternative? NOAA has a massive hand in developing wind turbines at sea… completely decimating wildlife, and the natural world aesthetics. If NOAA is such a treasure and a wealth of knowledge, why would they be pushing, funding and developing such a thing? Surely they know it's terrible for the environment.? Surely they would never be corrupted by the promise of grants and new funding..? |
| 340691 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 83 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:17:38-0400 | Budthedog said: I don't think you're being disingenuous here but this is not at all what planktom was saying. Deregulation is how private companies get to make their money at the expense of people and the environment. To say what the administration is doing is the opposite of capitalism is wild. Click to expand... Totally fair. I understand that it's not the opposite- mentioned as an alternative look at the actions. At the end of the day, they'll find a way to consume the human capital in some form. The shedding of fed will most likely occur with the addition of human capital elsewhere.. |
| 340695 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 84 | Bryce | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:29:57-0400 | seabird said: Thanks for the classy reply Spiral. Not picking on you or the comment as it was just a profit example, and a good one at that, but you did mention fossil fuels… so would you say that offshore wind turbines are a better alternative? NOAA has a massive hand in developing wind turbines at sea… completely decimating wildlife, and the natural world aesthetics. If NOAA is such a treasure and a wealth of knowledge, why would they be pushing, funding and developing such a thing? Surely they know it's terrible for the environment.? Surely they would never be corrupted by the promise of grants and new funding..? Click to expand... Offshore wind is more BOEM than NOAA. I've worked on projects to protect areas all along the West Coast from offshore mining and wind energy developments. There is more of an emphasis on conservation and sustainable management of resources than pure exploitation. The new Chumash National Marine Sanctuary (managed by NOAA) is a good example. The debate of how to preserve vs utilize natural resources is a long and tired debate. |
| 340696 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 85 | takedown | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:31:41-0400 | seabird said: With all due respect this guy has gotten absolutely destroyed by data scientists, ex-military, ex-gov, ex-treasury, ex-intelligence in the replies of so many of his tweets "fact checking" the receipts. He has been downright wrong. The guy has zero legitimacy / credibility. He is an influencer going up against data scientists. He was on the Hilary Clinton campaign and labels himself as a "progressive liberal" blogger/"accountability journalist". Click to expand... With all due respect Elon has been wrong a lot. He regularly posts misinformation on his own account and on the DOGE account. While he's a bright guy and done a lot of great things, that doesn't mean he can't be wrong. It doesn't mean that the tear it down method used at Twitter translates to the US government. You give him the benefit of the doubt everywhere while there are people in this thread, who work at the agency, telling you it's not going well, that lots of harm is being done. One point that is proof that this is not being done right? They are scrambling to rehire people that they need now. That doesn't happen in a well run machine. It happens when you don't know what you are doing. The other big issue is that Elon was the largest funder at the end of the Trump campaign. He has a vested interest in being right. He has decided that he is the only savior for our country. That's not a smart person making calculated decisions, it's someone being so emotionally invested that they can't afford to be wrong. Call it a god complex if you want, but it doesn't lead to informed decisions. |
| 340697 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 86 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T14:37:54-0400 | Bryce said: I had written out a pretty long and elaborate reply giving insight into NOAA and current realities, but this thread has become more political than I want to get involved with. I'll keep it short. Send me a private message if anyone wants an in-depth conversation about anything… 1. Very unlikely that NOAA will not maintain the NBDC database and continue free access. However, top down restrictions of public data or a push towards privatization could affect this. 2. The cuts made were not necessary, and the loss of colleagues has caused noticeable problems, larger work loads, and slower administrative processing times. One thing to note with NOAA is there is never an end to our workload, there is always an immense amount to do and there aren't really people sitting around doing nothing. I'm not sure what vision of government inefficiency people are imagining, but I can say everyone I work with has a sense of pride in their work. If someone is a slacker or a bad egg, they are usually weeded out quickly. Also, everyone acknowledges there is more money in the private sector, so federal employees are largely valuing serving the public and taking pride in their job over making the most money they can. Yet, these cuts have been really sad because we have lost some excellent employees that were really good at their jobs and contributed in tangible ways. 3. Morale is low. Everyone is worried about loosing their job, some new mandate making their job a logistical nightmare, and the general unpredictableness of current government leadership. One thing I've noticed, is the normal communication of information within NOAA was from NOAA leadership via broadcast emails. NOAA leadership had the power to make agency wide decisions. That has changed, now we are getting information from media outlets and different government emails (OPM) and NOAA leadership is just as shocked and then sends out NOAA-wide emails, trying to keep caught up with news and changes. Wild times. … |
| 340703 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 87 | TheEL | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T15:07:25-0400 | Bryce said: I had written out a pretty long and elaborate reply giving insight into NOAA and current realities, but this thread has become more political than I want to get involved with. I'll keep it short. Send me a private message if anyone wants an in-depth conversation about anything… 1. Very unlikely that NOAA will not maintain the NBDC database and continue free access. However, top down restrictions of public data or a push towards privatization could affect this. 2. The cuts made were not necessary, and the loss of colleagues has caused noticeable problems, larger work loads, and slower administrative processing times. One thing to note with NOAA is there is never an end to our workload, there is always an immense amount to do and there aren't really people sitting around doing nothing. I'm not sure what vision of government inefficiency people are imagining, but I can say everyone I work with has a sense of pride in their work. If someone is a slacker or a bad egg, they are usually weeded out quickly. Also, everyone acknowledges there is more money in the private sector, so federal employees are largely valuing serving the public and taking pride in their job over making the most money they can. Yet, these cuts have been really sad because we have lost some excellent employees that were really good at their jobs and contributed in tangible ways. 3. Morale is low. Everyone is worried about loosing their job, some new mandate making their job a logistical nightmare, and the general unpredictableness of current government leadership. One thing I've noticed, is the normal communication of information within NOAA was from NOAA leadership via broadcast emails. NOAA leadership had the power to make agency wide decisions. That has changed, now we are getting information from media outlets and different government emails (OPM) and NOAA leadership is just as shocked and then sends out NOAA-wide emails, trying to keep caught up with news and changes. Wild times. … |
| 340722 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 88 | TurtleTime | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:08:06-0400 | wait, NOAA requires their people on commercial fishing vessels? |
| 340723 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 89 | Spiral Bee | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:10:23-0400 | seabird said: Thanks for the classy reply Spiral. Not picking on you or the comment as it was just a profit example, and a good one at that, but you did mention fossil fuels… so would you say that offshore wind turbines are a better alternative? Click to expand... Yes I would. One of these alternatives results in some bird deaths and spoiled vistas. The other threatens the health and viability of the living planet writ large. But that's neither here nor there, because Trump / Project 2025 is hell-bent on crippling the ability of agencies to even weigh these considerations in the way we're doing here. Please just look at the regimes that Trump and his friends admire: Russia, North Korea, Hungary. In another time and place I would have been more enthused about discussing with you the merits of various energy sources, but I can't do it now, in this context. You see, you want to debate on the grounds of fact, reason, and efficiency, which is admirable on its face, but naive in this context, as though taking at face value that efficiency is what the Department of Government Efficiency was about. The name of the agency is no truer than those of the Ministry of Peace, the Ministry of Truth or the Ministry of Plenty in Orwell's 1984. But I too appreciate your willingness to tangle respectfully. |
| 340725 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 90 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:22:30-0400 | TurtleTime said: wait, NOAA requires their people on commercial fishing vessels? Click to expand... It's NOAA Fisheries, a branch of NOAA, yes. To collect a wide range of data, to monitor ecosystems, and to enforce fishing boundaries, among other reasons. It's hard on fishermen. They can't leave port without an observer. Or at least that's how it was 5ish years ago when I was working for them. |
| 340727 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 91 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:27:32-0400 | Spiral Bee said: Yes I would. One of these alternatives results in some bird deaths and spoiled vistas. The other threatens the health and viability of the living planet writ large. But that's neither here nor there, because Trump / Project 2025 is hell-bent on crippling the ability of agencies to even weigh these considerations in the way we're doing here. Please just look at the regimes that Trump and his friends admire: Russia, North Korea, Hungary. In another time and place I would have been more enthused about discussing with you the merits of various energy sources, but I can't do it now, in this context. You see, you want to debate on the grounds of fact, reason, and efficiency, which is admirable on its face, but naive in this context, as though taking at face value that efficiency is what the Department of Government Efficiency was about. The name of the agency is no truer than those of the Ministry of Peace, the Ministry of Truth or the Ministry of Plenty in Orwell's 1984. But I too appreciate your willingness to tangle Click to expand... The last administration literally had a ministry of truth- it was called the "Disinformation Governance Board" and they in fact censored and altered truth. Big Orwell fan. The Road to Wigan Pier was eye opening for me. |
| 340728 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 92 | TurtleTime | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:30:51-0400 | seabird said: It's NOAA Fisheries, a branch of NOAA, yes. To collect a wide range of data, to monitor ecosystems, and to enforce fishing boundaries, among other reasons. It's hard on fishermen. They can't leave port without an observer. Or at least that's how it was 5ish years ago when I was working for them. Click to expand... thanks, didn't know. |
| 340731 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 93 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:33:49-0400 | TurtleTime said: thanks, didn't know. Click to expand... Yeah there's some crazy stories out there of govt observers losing their lives mysteriously- tossed off the back of fishing vessels by aggravated crew that don't want to be monitored.. |
| 340733 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 94 | Bryce | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:37:43-0400 | seabird said: It's NOAA Fisheries, a branch of NOAA, yes. To collect a wide range of data, to monitor ecosystems, and to enforce fishing boundaries, among other reasons. It's hard on fishermen. They can't leave port without an observer. Or at least that's how it was 5ish years ago when I was working for them. Click to expand... For the most part the observers are not NOAA employees. They are usually employees of companies who hold the NOAA contract, like Saltwater Inc. |
| 340734 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 95 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:40:51-0400 | Bryce said: For the most part the observers are not NOAA employees. They are usually employees of companies who hold the NOAA contract, like Saltwater Inc. Click to expand... Precisely, or other NGO's that get fed funding, or NOAA contract to do so. Which in that case, their direct employees are indeed the ones going on the vessels. This is what I did. I worked for an NGO research org in Falmouth and part of my job was being an observer. |
| 340735 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 96 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:41:36-0400 | TurtleTime said: wait, NOAA requires their people on commercial fishing vessels? Click to expand... This fundamentally breaks down the tired argument that deregulation is only a ploy for the ultra wealthy and for the czars in power like Musk and Trump. Which has reverberated throughout this thread.. Pompous, out of touch, politically motivated regulation can hurt everyone down to the minimum wage fishermen that's trying to make ends meet, working debatably, the world's most dangerous job…. |
| 340737 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 97 | Spiral Bee | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:51:34-0400 | seabird said: Big Orwell fan. The Road to Wigan Pier was eye opening for me. Click to expand... I haven't read that one yet ! Thx Homage to Catalonia is a trip, and very funny at times. |
| 340738 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 98 | Budthedog | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:52:40-0400 | seabird said: This fundamentally breaks down the tired argument that deregulation is only a ploy for the ultra wealthy and for the czars in power like Musk and Trump. Click to expand... How is it a tired argument? "Only" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Remove it and the argument remains pretty solid, leave it and you've got a nice straw man. seabird said: Pompous, out of touch, politically motivated regulation can hurt everyone Click to expand... I haven't heard anyone arguing for this. |
| 340739 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 99 | seabird | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:53:09-0400 | Spiral Bee said: I haven't read that one yet ! Thx Homage to Catalonia is a trip, and very funny at times. Click to expand... It's so so gnarly. Puts modern life in perspective for sure! |
| 340740 | 21050 | Gutting NOAA | 100 | Bryce | Mar 14, 2025 | 2025-03-14T17:55:16-0400 | seabird said: Just going to pushback on this. NOAA and other very similar NGOs also fuck over commercial fishermen big time. Talk to any fishing boat captain in the US and I assure you they will share this sentiment… They have to pay out of pocket for observers to ride on their boat, share their bunks, eat their food, and monitor their catch. They already operate on ridiculously tight margins and they have to essentially profit share with fed employees to ultimately catch less fish.. Speaking from direct, direct experience.. Click to expand... You said federal employees, but the fishery observers are contractors not feds. Those are two different things, especially with all the focus on federal employees in the news. You're right in stating a lot of fisherman don't like the observers on their boats. But let it be known that the general concept of observers is in the best interest of the sustainability of the fisheries, ensuring limits and regulations are followed for all the boats in the fleet and with the goal of not exhausting the resource due to excessive take and malpractice. Sure it sucks when you want to make as most money as you can as a fisherman, but imagine the depletion of fish stocks and marine ecosystem degradation if fishing boats were allowed to fish wide open and take as many fish as they possible can and in any method they can imagine. Our impact on the environment is much larger and stronger than we have historically acknowledged. Plus there are a lot of really bad fishery observers out there who are bad shipmates or were unprepared to be thrown into the hard-core culture of a lot of fishing boats with crews that are families or as tight as a family. So of course that factors into fishermen's dislike of having some random person on their boat enforcing regulations with usually very little experience or sea legs. Also, the general sentiment towards NOAA in New England is much different from the West Coast. New Englanders have been putting the pres… |
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