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post_id ▼	thread_id	thread_title	post_number	author_username	post_date	post_date_iso	post_body
222977	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	21	Ricksurfin	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-10T21:19:13-0400	All I want is a good riding board at a fair price, I don’t want to get caught up in the politics.
222980	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	22	DanSan	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-10T22:08:58-0400	Oou u7 Ricksurfin said: All I want is a good riding board at a fair price, I don't want to get caught up in the politics. Click to expand... Fucking aye..right.. Hellavappoint..rick.. Amen.
222992	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	23	stopchewingplease	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T01:11:01-0400	I don't see any argument outside of authenticity and environmental ethics: Be transparent about how you shape (or aren't shaping) boards. You can be authentic and have machine shaped or partially shaped boards, just be transparent and honest. Every board will eventually end up in the trash and the process it takes to create a board is largely not environmentally friendly. Each creation has environmental implication. I do not want to associate--as I take issue--with a material culture. It is a internal struggle and torment, especially when I find myself wanting to shape a board. The importance of a well made product is not beyond me. But that is my own personal feeling. There will be those who do not care, be that way but take a moment to think as to what ideologies you are enforcing. Surfing started as a counterculture. As it becomes mainstreamed it is sure to develop a new counterculture. The original attraction is still there. Be free in belief, but do not believe freely in anything which comes your way without critique.
222994	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	24	Planktom	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T02:39:21-0400	Sbbcc said: Did you read my post? I guess not Click to expand... I don't understand your point There is no shortage of surfboards. Sure, there's been longer wait times for customs over the past couple years, but it has hardly been an average couple of years across the globe. But if you wanted to get into surfing for the first time or pick up an interesting 'artisan' used board as an experienced surfer (most folk on here, I would suggest) then there is still a plethora of choice. I don't really have an issue with Bruce, Almond making softops etc... They are board builders, making boards that will be sold directly or through surf shops and I would not call that scale of production 'mass production'.. But Wavestorms and the the like and those shitty inflatable SUPs that are sold from supermarkets and fall apart and up in the trash can before a season is out... No need to exist in this world
222995	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	25	Planktom	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T07:01:34-0400	stopchewingplease said: Surfing started as a counterculture. As it becomes mainstreamed it is sure to develop a new counterculture. The original attraction is still there. Be free in belief, but do not believe freely in anything which comes your way without critique. Click to expand... I agree, I don't think this is an overly-optimistic statement at all. There are some golden threads to surfing as a culture and I believe that the ability to talk to another surfer who has developed enough skill to make a really good custom surfboard to meet my needs/imagination is really worth something. I have been concerned that the sea of hyped-up, 'proprietary' tech (cough, splutter...) boards may pull people away from this relationship to the point of that culture being eroded, but maybe I'm worried about nothing. The Emperor's clothes will always go out of fashion some day.
222997	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	26	espi	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T09:06:45-0400	There's room for originals, copies, and pop-outs. I had a shaper friend make me a Lost V3 rocket because, well, I was putting on some weight and my 6'0" original wasn't cutting it anymore. The 6'4" "copy" was better than the original, which was certainly made on a machine anyway.
222999	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	27	Sbbcc	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T10:11:28-0400	Planktom said: I don't understand your point There is no shortage of surfboards. Sure, there's been longer wait times for customs over the past couple years, but it has hardly been an average couple of years across the globe. But if you wanted to get into surfing for the first time or pick up an interesting 'artisan' used board as an experienced surfer (most folk on here, I would suggest) then there is still a plethora of choice. I don't really have an issue with Bruce, Almond making softops etc... They are board builders, making boards that will be sold directly or through surf shops and I would not call that scale of production 'mass production'.. But Wavestorms and the the like and those shitty inflatable SUPs that are sold from supermarkets and fall apart and up in the trash can before a season is out... No need to exist in this world Click to expand... Ah yes no place in the world for wave storms. I'm going to teach my kids how to surf on a brand new artisan board and never let them wear a leash
223000	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	28	SMUKES	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T10:22:02-0400	Maybe teach them on a nice used board or one of your own like we did before the storms? Or better yet don't teach them at all. Drop them off at the shores with a boogieboard, a towel and 5 bucks and see what happens.
223001	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	29	Planktom	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T10:31:04-0400	Haha... What did we do for 50+ years before foamies appeared in the supermarkets? How did we ever learn to surf?? You can find a beat up old board with enough float, it could even be an old surf school board, to learn on anywhere in the world these days... use them, pass them on... I am kind of warm to the idea of not buying brand new mass produced shit anymore and not giving money to people who don't surf when I don't need to.
223002	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	30	Sbbcc	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T10:39:33-0400	when did jamboards get so toxic?
223003	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	31	Planktom	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T10:42:51-0400	It's just opinions, no toxicity. Apologies if you were offended in some way.
223005	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	32	miscreant	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T11:00:57-0400	Sbbcc said: when did jamboards get so toxic? Click to expand... This thread was designed to be a shit storm of subjectivity.
223007	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	33	SMUKES	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T11:48:37-0400	What's toxic about suggesting you don't need to buy foamy sarf borbs to get a kid happy and surfy?
223008	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	34	Bruce Fowler	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T12:08:21-0400	Surfnfish said: so after the scan, which picks up use imperfections such as deck dents and such, the software has a filter to eliminate same..? Click to expand... It's way beyond that now. In the case of the V8 Dansan's sharp eye picked up on & quickly bought, when I got it, it had side biter fins in the Futures rail boxes. Leon was doing his run heading south, and I was taking out the fins..... one of them had a stripped grub screw. Less than 30 minutes & counting to meet Leon out in Buellton where he'd stop to gas up. The screw was so butchered, my tapping tool wasn't getting it, so I aborted the pick up. Then I emailed Marie and she said "I don't need the fin out". The Shape 3D program, unlike a "probe" can eliminate dents, dings, wax jobs. I remember when Michael was still able to do all the scans & files that Owl Chapman had him do, he told Michael "the files clean up my crap and make my boards better than I shaped them". Well, that can be a good thing for a customer and a bad thing for shapers competing against guys that are now professing to be surfboard designers. The program is somewhat 'intuitive' and can 'fill in gaps' for guys sitting at their computer. Like Joey hotshot, self professed "SURFBOARD DESIGNER" whose family is so proud that he finally found something to do in life. Joey sits at his computer and says "I'm gonna make this rocker "better" by adding/reducing at the nose....... he puts in a couple dots on the profile diagram: one at the tip of the nose and one further back, let's say, 22" back to 0" at the nose........ instead of him having to put multiple points along that stretch, he can just do like an autopilot & let the software do it....... like commercial pilots on long flights where the plane is on autopilot the vast majority of the time. I remember one guy I met that used to be a pilot for Continental and he said he quit & became a patent attorney because flying was one of the most mind numbing boring jobs …
223009	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	35	Sax-son	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T12:11:06-0400	Planktom said: I agree, I don't think this is an overly-optimistic statement at all. There are some golden threads to surfing as a culture and I believe that the ability to talk to another surfer who has developed enough skill to make a really good custom surfboard to meet my needs/imagination is really worth something. I have been concerned that the sea of hyped-up, 'proprietary' tech (cough, splutter...) boards may pull people away from this relationship to the point of that culture being eroded, but maybe I'm worried about nothing. The Emperor's clothes will always go out of fashion some day. Click to expand... I don't think that surfing started as a counterculture. Yes, there were some counterculture personalities associated with it, but not as a whole. I started surfing at 12 years old and I was certainly not part of any counterculture at that age. I think some of that was created by Hollywood. Beach communities and the "surfing culture" are different because of their proximity to the ocean. It is natural for those communities to gravitate to ocean related events be it diving, surfing, sailing etc. It just comes with the territory. I lived in a beach community for over 55 years so I know the difference between that and the mountain community I live now, although there are some similarities in thought and attitude of both. During my grom period, I dealt with personalities like Con Colburn, Dewey Weber, Hap Jacobs, and Bing Copeland. I never for once thought of them as counterculture personalities.
223010	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	36	Bruce Fowler	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T12:11:07-0400	miscreant said: This thread was designed to be a shit storm of subjectivity. Click to expand... Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one......... get it out, get it all out...... let 'er rip. F'kd up people decide to become therapists & charge sh-tloads of money for sitting there listening to other fk'd up people. Welcome to the world. I'm not even charging for this therapy.
223013	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	37	miscreant	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T12:49:10-0400	Bruce Fowler said: Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one......... get it out, get it all out...... let 'er rip. F'kd up people decide to become therapists & charge sh-tloads of money for sitting there listening to other fk'd up people. Welcome to the world. I'm not even charging for this therapy. Click to expand... Dysphemism aside, I've got nothing to get out. Rather, I'm just scratching my head , trying to figure out how the content on this thread helps our community. I mean... who cares what one thinks regarding what one finds as acceptable? The blathering is remotely entertaining though.
223014	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	38	XXX	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T12:54:40-0400	"... who cares what one thinks regarding what one finds as acceptable? The blathering is remotely entertaining though." Including your own? If one approach rewards creative craftspeople and provides other surfers with meaningful employment and the other approach puts $$ into corporate coffers for a product sold by brain dead, non-surfing wage laborers, then it's a worthwhile question what we're willing to accept.
223016	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	39	miscreant	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T13:02:50-0400	Niau said: If one approach rewards creative craftspeople and provides other surfers with meaningful employment and the other approach puts $$ into corporate coffers for a product sold by brain dead, non-surfing wage laborers, then it's a worthwhile question what we're willing to accept. Click to expand... you've got a point. we live in a time where people would rather read what they should think, then form an opinion through experience.
223017	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	40	Bruce Fowler	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T13:14:08-0400	miscreant said: Dysphemism aside, I've got nothing to get out. Rather, I'm just scratching my head , trying to figure out how the content on this thread helps our community. I mean... who cares what one thinks regarding what one finds as acceptable? The blathering is remotely entertaining though. Click to expand... YOU hold the remote. YOU don't have to participate. It's social media, a forum where people can remain anonymous for their own reasons whether it be for peace of mind, a sense of security, or to be more outrageous than they would ever dare to be otherwise. You have a developed vocabulary that some people might guess what a word you use might be from its base, like dys.... as in dysfunctional, etc. .......or that might be lazy or not care and read past it. It's a personal choice. You're scratching your head trying to figure out how this thread helps our community....?? I could say that about multitudes of other threads here and elsewhere. What is wrong with airing subjects out that some people 'never knew this or that'? It's not toxic, it's not negative, it's just someone's opinion airing something out that might promote someone's understanding of how their surfboard might come into being. Which way it originated, how it can be manufactured, how they used to be made with a lot of romanticism attached to 60's labels that people's heartstrings still get pulled due to fond memories of innocent youth & days gone by. There are quite a few people that belong to Jamz that are willing to pay a premium for a new old board with a label that sparks moments of the past. Whether you think it is 'good' or 'bad' is entirely up to you. I'm just educating a reader as to how it is being done, where there might be some questionable practices, or if it is just to be considered the new norm like stealing mail out of mailboxes to get ahead becuz times are hard? That last one used to be a Federal Crime, no…
223018	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	41	SMUKES	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T13:17:50-0400	miscreant said: Dysphemism aside, I've got nothing to get out. Rather, I'm just scratching my head , trying to figure out how the content on this thread helps our community. I mean... who cares what one thinks regarding what one finds as acceptable? The blathering is remotely entertaining though. Click to expand... Wait..."helps the community"? Haha.
223021	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	42	Bruce Fowler	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T13:29:39-0400	THESE can "help the community"......... well not the the driver - passenger team going down the neighborhood 'working their route'.... But the companies making them are STOKED... ! ... they are busy and thankful to have the work. There's always a silver lining somewhere.
223022	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	43	Planktom	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T13:38:52-0400	This is an online discussion forum around the subject of surfing. Not only do I expect a high level of blathering, I would be bitterly disappointed if I found it lacking in blather.
223023	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	44	andrew-	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T13:39:27-0400	Bruce Fowler said: or if it is just to be considered the new norm like stealing mail out of mailboxes to get ahead becuz times are hard? Click to expand... Huh? It sounds like you are equating new practices in surfboard design and building to stealing mail. "Educating," got it.
223025	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	45	SMUKES	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T13:45:03-0400	Falls under "Blathering" haha
223027	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	46	Bruce Fowler	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T13:55:00-0400	Andrew Johnson said: Huh? It sounds like you are equating new practices in surfboard design and building to stealing mail. "Educating," got it. Click to expand... No, I just threw that in there becuz people & accounts still mail me checks and I had three stolen over the past few months. I found IF you put up your red flag for the postal carrier to p/u, it sends a signal for thieves to grab it first. I guess the only parallel there is in my posting/mentioning it is the fact that people are looking for any which way to make a buck that doesn't take any or a lot of effort. This is esp. true in CA where people are financially distressed. People are quick to politicize just about everything these days w/o considering there might be shades of gray in between. As far as methods of creating surfboards, there are more ways to create them than ever before, and some are more to one's liking than another. I was lucky to finally be able to buy another planer while my trusty stable of Clark Hitachi's & Skil 100's get some badly needed TLC from a guy I know that will go thru all four of them and dial them in. They are long overworked for this type of attention. I was running on fumes getting orders out for custom hand shapes and every resource I looked at for a modified planer fitting my purpose was sold out. Finally after three months, this one became back in stock for $700. I bought it immediately. It works really well with an action somewhere between the Skil 100's & Clark Hitachi F30A's (larger Clark version). The action of my other planers differ as to balancing from their toe piece to tail beds.
223047	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	47	Sax-son	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T17:20:02-0400	Bruce Fowler said: The future is already here, and it's getting less and less personal by the day. Us "living" shapers are already competing with uh, "dead shapers" as it is........ all ya need is someone to scan that Weber Performer or something Michael Peterson or Midget or John Bradbury shaped back in their hey day.... Click to expand... All of what you say is probably true. However, if I came to you and said, " I want a Weber Performer or a Yater Spoon shape and you say to me, "Yeah, I can do that for you", "What kind of a glass job do you want on it?" , I could care less how you get from point A to point B as long as the finished product comes out the way I want. CNC, hand shaped, whatever. I never cared about it before and why should I now. I would be paying for your expertise in surfboard production to deliver the goods. As long as that board rides good, that is good enough for me. I have had some beautiful hand shaped and exquisitely glassed boards that didn't ride worth a crap so if the CNC's board gets me to a good place, that's fine with me.
223056	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	48	SeniorGrom	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T18:47:08-0400	Sax....how would the shaper you are approaching know that you have any clue what you are asking for? Will you have a way to evaluate whether the results in any way come close to an original Performer or Spoon? I doubt many surfers could. Do you even own a rocker stick to compare one essential aspect. The whole assumption seems very odd to me. If you are taking an original and saying “scan this and make me one”. Maybe I understand.
223061	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	49	Bruce Fowler	Oct 11, 2021	2021-10-11T19:04:47-0400	Whoever you take a Weber (or somebody else's board for that matter) and they will scan it is uh, pretty unethical. But I'm sure there are people out there that won't bat an eye at that, whether it's a Performer, a C.I., DHD, or one of mine....... which I was told someone in Australia already did.
223068	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	50	SMUKES	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-11T20:33:26-0400	Totally unethical but I can hear it now... "PeOplE hAvE ALwaYS cOpIEd oTHeR PeoPLeS bOrBs" etc... the difference being the effortless ripping off via binary code if anyone is WOnDeRiNg.
223074	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	51	Sax-son	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-11T21:37:57-0400	SeniorGrom said: Sax....how would the shaper you are approaching know that you have any clue what you are asking for? Will you have a way to evaluate whether the results in any way come close to an original Performer or Spoon? I doubt many surfers could. Do you even own a rocker stick to compare one essential aspect. The whole assumption seems very odd to me. If you are taking an original and saying "scan this and make me one". Maybe I understand. Click to expand... In this particular case, I know what those boards are because I rode a bunch of them over the years. For me personally, I have trusted the shapers I used and they would not have taken on the job if they didn't know what they were doing. I had that much faith in them and I was rarely let down. I know at least a half dozen shapers right off the top of my head that know those boards inside and out. As far a using someone I have not had experience with? That could be a different story. That is a situation where you have to do your homework first and get feedback on their reputations. I once tried to get Greg Liddle to shape me a 9'8" Yater Spoon replica. At that time, shapers were just starting to do longboards again. Greg turned me down because the Clark Foam longboard blanks at that time had a strange rocker profile. Greg knew that he could not build me a board that size because he felt that it wouldn't be specification correct nor would it be right for him to take on the job. He said he could build me a 9'0" but not a 9' 8". Although disappointed, I always admired him for that and I felt he had my best interests at heart. I could have been taken advantage of by a different shaper, but not him.
223093	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	52	Proper_Mode	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T01:14:10-0400	I work with high end 3d scanners - not cheap systems or smartphone technology. These are used in aerospace manufacturing. I would love to try and work out a scanning project with something interesting engineering or manufacturing wise. Feel free to message me if interested. no I won’t do your reverse engineering so you don’t have to wait 10 months for a vaquero. But there are a potential applications for all kinds of water craft and accessories that might make sense.
223120	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	53	Latte	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T09:56:46-0400	I used to be dead set against popouts....Like nope not for me. At this point in time, I don't care enough anymore. There are really no popouts anyway that I even prefer the dimensions (or I should say just a couple). I'm all for the craftsman / artisan...I hope to see more vacuum sealed boards that can take a beating in the future by shapers like the Core Vac by Cannibal.
223124	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	54	XXX	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T10:06:36-0400	Latte said: I used to be dead set against popouts....Like nope not for me. At this point in time, I don't care enough anymore. There are really no popouts anyway that I even prefer the dimensions (or I should say just a couple). I'm all for the craftsman / artisan...I hope to see more vacuum sealed boards that can take a beating in the future by shapers like the Core Vac by Cannibal. Click to expand... I don't know why vacuum bagging isn't used more. It's pretty simple and affordable, I would think. Results in stronger, more consistent laminations (and flex?) possibly reduced waste. Anyone familiar with the plus and minus of this glassing approach?
223126	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	55	Ricksurfin	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T10:29:45-0400	I used to be against pop outs as well, and I’ve supported the hand shape industry for a long time and will continue to do so. That said, I can’t seem to get off my Surftech Takayama Prince Kuhio as it’s the most fun board I’ve ever ridden in the twilight of my surfing time here on earth, and when it gets over 4’, I break out the Parallax. I just want to smile, and whatever makes that happen I’m good with.
223132	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	56	shapewright	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T11:58:27-0400	Bruce Fowler said: Whoever you take a Weber (or somebody else's board for that matter) and they will scan it is uh, pretty unethical. But I'm sure there are people out there that won't bat an eye at that, whether it's a Performer, a C.I., DHD, or one of mine....... which I was told someone in Australia already did. Click to expand... Before moving back to San Diego an east coaster bought a used machine, he promptly scanned Lost, Rusty, CI popular short board models. That's wrong, I've had to give potential customers the walk sign, especially when asking for a DT in the Pink or a neck beard, " I'm not Donald or Al", get one of theirs. I finished thousands of machine cuts while Channin was still active, Greg Nolls, Hansen's, Surfboards Hawaii, Channin, never enough shaping rooms or shapers to fill the bays like in the hey days. Matt Calvani with the machine accurately reproduces each model at their shop, same with the other companies. In the 60's each shaper did the models, but each had a personal tweak they added. The machine is just a tool, scanning someone else's work is just plain wrong, I don't know what Bruce went through during the learning phase, but I was browbeat by experienced shapers until I became good at my craft, Gene went through the same gauntlet. We learned to be competent craftsmen, hand built or finishers
223135	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	57	shapewright	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T12:00:46-0400	SMUKES said: Totally unethical but I can hear it now... "PeOplE hAvE ALwaYS cOpIEd oTHeR PeoPLeS bOrBs" etc... the difference being the effortless ripping off via binary code if anyone is WOnDeRiNg. Click to expand... It spills over to " you kooks don't copy my color "
223138	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	58	Bruce Fowler	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T12:10:36-0400	So in reading the last several comments, maybe we have to ask what constitutes a "pop out"? Is it Reynolds Yater using milled/machined blanks of his Yater Spoons? Or is a pop out a Firewire or Surftech? The different methods of making a surfboard now widely available upon us include vacuum bagging which largely came over from sailboard production. As one of the main custom sailboard shapers in the 1980's, I saw how the sport of windsurfing & the industry evolved. I was building the "Ferraris" with other guys like Bruce Jones, Ed Angulo, the Naish family, Craig Maisonville, Bob Dill, Eric Voight, Gary Swanson, Dave Johnson, Jon Price, Topper, and Steve Seebold. The heavy, flimsy rotomolded "Windsurfers" that pounded & vibrated in anything over 3 knots served the purpose of getting people started in a sport that had many false starts before people in the skiing industry got involved and told Hoyle & Schweitzer "you're never going to attract people to buy into the sport when all they see is Mike Waltze jumping a wave in "Surfer Magazine". Sure, people think wow, bitchen, but I could never do that " They knew what they were talking about. I was an active snow skier, and I might not have ever gotten into the sport had these same people not have the insight to attract throngs of new snow skiers thru a learning program they introduced known as "GLM" aka "Graduated Length Method". Accomplished skiers HATED "GLM" because rhe shorter, easier to learn on skis cut the mountain up hideously. Their only refuge was to ski the advanced runs that Beginner & Intermediates wouldn't dare to tackle until later. Their influence sent Hoyle & Schweitzer back to Con, who created their first Windsurfers per their design. As two surfing engineers working in Long Beach, they arrived upon creating a board that they could affix a sail to when they got off work and the surf was blown out. The new beginner board was much wider with a very stable bottom they named a "Star" board which instilled conf…
223141	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	59	Bruce Fowler	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T12:43:47-0400	shapewright said: Before moving back to San Diego an east coaster bought a used machine, he promptly scanned Lost, Rusty, CI popular short board models. That's wrong, I've had to give potential customers the walk sign, especially when asking for a DT in the Pink or a neck beard, " I'm not Donald or Al", get one of theirs. I finished thousands of machine cuts while Channin was still active, Greg Nolls, Hansen's, Surfboards Hawaii, Channin, never enough shaping rooms or shapers to fill the bays like in the hey days. Matt Calvani with the machine accurately reproduces each model at their shop, same with the other companies. In the 60's each shaper did the models, but each had a personal tweak they added. The machine is just a tool, scanning someone else's work is just plain wrong, I don't know what Bruce went through during the learning phase, but I was browbeat by experienced shapers until I became good at my craft, Gene went through the same gauntlet. We learned to be competent craftsmen, hand built or finishers Click to expand... Thank you for sharing that. To answer what "you don't know what I went thru". Like Al Merrick, I am totally self taught as a shaper. As a kid, I still had it in me that making a surfboard was a creative pursuit and I wanted my 'art' to be original. Plus I was born & grew up in Santa Barbara, and it wasn't like I could easily go get mentored by Yater or someone else in town. There weren't a lot of guys making boards anyway: Yater, Jeff White & Brian Bradley (Owl), John Eichert, and a smidge later, Doug Roth. There was also some guy making hideous pop outs called "Borm" in the old lemon factory that one day Haakenson would inhabit and glass all the Channel Islands during Merrick's meteoric rise to fame. I used battens (flexible strips of wood) after plotting my points the full length of a blank of what I thought a good surfboard outline should look like. I anchored it in the best way I could to hold the …
223145	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	60	XXX	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T13:16:17-0400
223149	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	61	Bruce Fowler	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T14:06:55-0400	STOKED!
223160	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	62	Ricksurfin	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T15:53:19-0400	That’s diverse engineering. Love the smiles.
223173	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	63	XXX	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T16:53:15-0400	Ricksurfin said: That's diverse engineering. Love the smiles. Click to expand... Looks like he cut down a longer board... been there...
223176	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	64	Bruce Fowler	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T17:07:26-0400	Niau said: Looks like he cut down a longer board... been there... Click to expand... Greenough approved.
223198	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	65	Sax-son	Oct 12, 2021	2021-10-12T19:25:04-0400	Bruce Fowler said: I lived on a ranch in the mountains above Santa Barbara. So that became a reason for all these older guys to name me "hillbilly surfer" Click to expand... That's funny, that's kind of what I am. My mother had a few horses she kept at the stables at the Ventura fairground. In the mid to late 60's (when you were still allowed to do it) I use to saddle a couple of them up and my old surf buddy and I would ride them down past the Ventura pier and back when there was still that dirt trail that paralleled the beach at C street. I tell you what! It was a great way to meet girls, believe me. We had a blast doing it. Surfing trail bums.
223263	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	66	Surfnfish	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T12:30:43-0400	Sax-son said: That's funny, that's kind of what I am. My mother had a few horses she kept at the stables at the Ventura fairground. In the mid to late 60's (when you were still allowed to do it) I use to saddle a couple of them up and my old surf buddy and I would ride them down past the Ventura pier and back when there was still that dirt trail that paralleled the beach at C street. I tell you what! It was a great way to meet girls, believe me. We had a blast doing it. Surfing trail bums. Click to expand... during the 70's lived in Purisima Canyon, south of Half Moon Bay, where a handful of surfers with horses lived...had a King Ranch quarter horse used to trail ride all over the coastal mountains with the crew, on flat days buddy (he had an Appaloosa that loved beer) and I would ride our horse the 2 miles down the canyon to Tunitas Creek beach, strip off horses and us, ride them bareback into the surf line until they were swimming...fond memories of a special time and place
223265	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	67	Sax-son	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T12:48:13-0400	Surfnfish said: during the 70's lived in Purisima Canyon, south of Half Moon Bay, where a handful of surfers with horses lived...had a King Ranch quarter horse used to trail ride all over the coastal mountains with the crew, on flat days buddy (he had an Appaloosa that loved beer) and I would ride our horse the 2 miles down the canyon to Tunitas Creek beach, strip off horses and us, ride them bareback into the surf line until they were swimming...fond memories of a special time and place Click to expand... OMG! You just reminded me of something that I got to do at age 14. My uncle had a ranch up in Watsonville where he had a small business rehabbing injured thoroughbred race horses. Because he was 6'3" and weighed close to 300 lbs., he was not a candidate to ride them. Enter yours truly who weighed maybe 115 at that age. To make a long story short, he, myself, and my young cousin got to run these horses at the beach near Moss Landing. He wanted me to first ride them casually in the close "white water" as he said that the salt water was good therapy for their legs. However, some of these horses were a little "spunky' and they wanted to "fly". On a couple of occasions I was riding a few at full throttle with just a jockey saddle. A little exhilarating and scary at the same time. He tried to talk my mother into me being a part time jockey for some of the "low level' races he was involved in, but she said 'absolutely not". Anyway, it was long before my weight went way past the acceptable jockey weight so my career as a jockey would have been "short lived". What an experience that was!
223266	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	68	Bruce Fowler	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T13:31:11-0400	Sax-son said: OMG! You just reminded me of something that I got to do at age 14. My uncle had a ranch up in Watsonville where he had a small business rehabbing injured thoroughbred race horses. Because he was 6'3" and weighed close to 300 lbs., he was not a candidate to ride them. Enter yours truly who weighed maybe 115 at that age. To make a long story short, he, myself, and my young cousin got to run these horses at the beach near Moss Landing. He wanted me to first ride them casually in the close "white water" as he said that the salt water was good therapy for their legs. However, some of these horses were a little "spunky' and they wanted to "fly". On a couple of occasions I was riding a few at full throttle with just a jockey saddle. A little exhilarating and scary at the same time. He tried to talk my mother into me being a part time jockey for some of the "low level' races he was involved in, but she said 'absolutely not". Anyway, it was long before my weight went way past the acceptable jockey weight so my career as a jockey would have been "short lived". What an experience that was! Click to expand... THAT'S A CLASSIC STORY along with the other comments. Yup I rode bareback a lot and could stand on our horses as a pre teen. My brother & I would joust, but I usually lost becuz I'd be on Annabelle, my burro and he would tower over me on "Pandora" our Strawberry Roan. On one occasion I was asked if I was interested in making some money riding in the Fiesta Rodeo in Santa Barbara. They said, "you'll have a saddle and be racing other kids your age on an Ostrich." I asked them how fast do they go, and they told me about thirty. I declined....... sounded like a bad accident just waiting to happen.
223269	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	69	Artz	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T15:03:06-0400	Firewire wants to reverse engineer. Those kids boards.
223274	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	70	Bruce Fowler	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T15:27:38-0400	Artz said: Firewire wants to reverse engineer. Those kids boards. Click to expand... Firewire is using the same tech we developed w/sailboards. The materials they use are widely available for cheap in Asia. The EPS that makes for their cores are dirt cheap when bought in large quantity. Nobody knows what quality of EPS they are using because nobody ever sees it. The machined blanks and vac bagging eliminates a lot of hand labor. I have expressed to the cnc guys that an inflatable drum or similar to a soft pad, could be a auto change out during the CNC cutting process to all but eliminate the need for hand scrubbing aka finish shaping. Perhaps a little hand work @ nose & tailback, but no need to remove ridges from cnc cuts. My guess for the actual per unit cost of a Firewire is somewhere between $29 to $37. I'm probably pretty close to the truth, it might even be lower. The rest of what they charge per unit considered as cost goes into marketing & of course cost of their building, which they probably bought and own. Their ability to land boards all said and done for less than $150 stateside equates to an efficient operation with a healthy bottom line realizing a good profit while flooding the market throughout CA and elsewhere. I'm not saying his is right or wrong, I'm just calling a spade a spade. They painted a story that they wanted to use the very best materials & be sustainable and eco friendly and in doing so could not economically build inside the USA and have it be worth their while. All businesses are in business to make money and this is their reality. If you like their product buy it, if you don't like it, or anything I've said here & feel there is a degree of truth in what I say that you find objectionable, then don't. The same can be applied to me or anyone else making surfboards. Politics aside: The buck stops with you.
223277	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	71	SMUKES	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T16:03:18-0400	I've heard $150 is about it. I wonder how they're doing tho, especially now with supply chain issues. I know the tour and ancillary culture is a flop.
223279	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	72	Bruce Fowler	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T16:20:34-0400	Hard to say....... yes $150 told to me by shop owners I know. Lots of consignment, and special cheaper discounts to the employees that will ride & swear by them. I looked up a dealer list last year and from SF to the border there were something like 89 shops on the list. I mean everybody and their brother is a dealer......... not real special if you ask me. You are correct about supply chain, or perhaps more problematic getting them to market. The containers went from $2k to $10k inside one month. That's NOT bullish-t as I shelled out a helluva lot more $ for the limited edition of soft tops Beatty sent me than had been planned....... and the increases continue with a guesstimate that things won't stabilize until next year. Add to this the hikes that the State of CA keeps adding wherever they can, the state is a like a thirsty coke whore that can never get enough. No wonder businesses (Oracle, Tesla, Charles Schwab, Starbucks, etc.) are leaving to relocate in Austin & other parts of Texas. The work force making less than $100K can't afford what little housing there is. A 3-4 million shortfall of housing has driven rental prices through the roof. The people that bought my duplex all cash for $1.6 decided NOT to move in because they could get $4500 for the 3/2.5 side & $3500 for the 2/1.5 side. Grant it, I buffed the place inside & out to be a turn key property but that just shows you how insane things have become. The people moving in PAID ONE YEAR RENT IN ADVANCE TO SECURE IT. California is on fire in more than one way...
223288	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	73	Ricksurfin	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T17:03:50-0400	Maybe $150 landed for Firewire, but the shop cost is much, much more then that when a board sells. The shops aren’t killing it on the cost vs sales price with Firewire boards, but the business model that Firewire has by putting their boards in shops at no cost to the shop is awesome for the shop. That said, depending on the square footage of the shop, the space taken up with boards is much better used selling soft goods with their profit margin. So, definitely a juggle deciding how much space to take up with boards. Boards do bring people in the shop though, and your hope is that with a board sale, the customer walks out with a wetsuit, t shirts, leash, traction, or some other products that make the shop money.
223297	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	74	Bruce Fowler	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T18:57:22-0400	Ricksurfin said: Maybe $150 landed for Firewire, but the shop cost is much, much more then that when a board sells. The shops aren't killing it on the cost vs sales price with Firewire boards, but the business model that Firewire has by putting their boards in shops at no cost to the shop is awesome for the shop. That said, depending on the square footage of the shop, the space taken up with boards is much better used selling soft goods with their profit margin. So, definitely a juggle deciding how much space to take up with boards. Boards do bring people in the shop though, and your hope is that with a board sale, the customer walks out with a wetsuit, t shirts, leash, traction, or some other products that make the shop money. Click to expand... Completely true. This was always the case when I was @ Surf 'n Wear in Santa Barbara. The back room had the surfboards but it was full of O'neill wetsuits which back then was a 40% markup. It made for the needed profit during winter along with the clothing and other goods. Unbelievably, when the footwear market started to evolve, we went from Holo Holo Reed Matt Sandals & Flojos thongs to what is now known as Deckers. We had a friend around the corner from the SB shop, Bob Bennett making crepe rubber sandals and he called them Sandals Originals. They were before Beachcomber Bill & Driftwood Dan (who would become Deckers). We were selling them so fast he couldn't stock us and he didn't want to expand. We were also selling some leather top and strap sandals called "Styled Steer". So we took a pair of Sandals Originals to them and said "make these". They use the same dies that cut the outline of the SS sandals, but it didn't work because the all crepe rubber we wanted would sink from your weight making the straps too tight. Long story short, we worked with them to get it right and then they came out with "Driftwood Dan Sandals". They were based in Goleta. "Beachcomber Bill" sprang up shortly thereafter and were…
223301	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	75	SMUKES	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T19:22:56-0400	Vans and skateboards saved the surfshop in the 80's.
223302	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	76	Bruce Fowler	Oct 13, 2021	2021-10-13T19:34:49-0400	SMUKES said: Vans and skateboards saved the surfshop in the 80's. Click to expand... Yes that's also true. Our boardshop with the wetsuits got a big counter housing all the skateboard stuff & we had a drill press & other tools for building boards to the customer's preference. It didn't take long for the parents to start dropping off their kids using us as babysitters while they went out to lunch knowing their kids weren't going anywhere. Vans became HUGE!
223313	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	77	Sax-son	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-13T21:41:18-0400	Bruce Fowler said: THAT'S A CLASSIC STORY along with the other comments. Yup I rode bareback a lot and could stand on our horses as a pre teen. My brother & I would joust, but I usually lost becuz I'd be on Annabelle, my burro and he would tower over me on "Pandora" our Strawberry Roan. On one occasion I was asked if I was interested in making some money riding in the Fiesta Rodeo in Santa Barbara. They said, "you'll have a saddle and be racing other kids your age on an Ostrich." I asked them how fast do they go, and they told me about thirty. I declined....... sounded like a bad accident just waiting to happen. Click to expand... Yeah, I almost completely forgot about that until Surfnfish told his story. All that coastal ranch area north and south of Santa Cruz was like a different time and place. You have to be careful with horses as you can get seriously injured. I had an incident with my mother's horse where I made the mistake of saddling him up and mounting him in his stall. He raised up up his hind legs and pushed my head up against the stall rafters. It really rang my bell. I was a dodo for even thinking to do that. You live and learn.
223350	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	78	Artz	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T10:13:46-0400	Firewire is pretty much run like an automobile company. Give the dealer an i victory. with terms 90 days with zero interest. then low interest beyond that. Board models that are not selling well they may offer a bonus. Meet a sales quota and another bonus. There is a lot of money that is behind the curtain in auto sales. Money to dear ships for advertising. Money to spruce up the show room. The auto companies want there dealers to present a company image. All car companies have architects and designers working for them. pretty much the same for Furniture stores, Appliances. And other consumer goods. They sell goods but the real money is in the financing of those cars, washer dryers and that bedroom set. I am seeing new financing on ads for Sporting goods that offer the consumer terms. “Afterpay“ is one company that I have seen. There are others as well. you can bet that Firewire is looking into the consumer finance on Surfboards. Something like 20% down and monthly payments.
223351	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	79	Bruce Fowler	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T10:25:41-0400	Artz, That is a very astute observation! For the last couple years or so I've seen guys in Ca offering a payment plan for their surfboards. Mainly guys out of or around Huntington Beach area. That would be an accounting nightmare for a lone wolf operation like me. Other than subcontracting glassing to Haakenson, I'm a one man operation. The same held true when I was approached then ended up doing the equivalent to a business start up for the Stoker V Machine. No one helped me....... that grew from me building 100% of the boards in my garage. It was such the burn out until I could make the leap to send glassing out. My education was in Business, Engineering & Physics. That leaves me ill prepared to deal within the numbskull world of dealing with what makes surfers tick. My only saving grace on that is being a surfer myself since that fated right slide @ the Sand Bar in 1959. Now I think being a "surfer" means something entirely different than then. I don't even know what 'that' means now, to be quite honest.
223354	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	80	SMUKES	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T10:46:31-0400	There's a few differences between surfboards and what are know as "durable goods". I'd be very surprised to see that model take off in any meaningful way. One of the biggest problems I see with Liarwire is hubris, and an overblown sense of potential, markets and surfing in general. They're kids playing dress up. And all of the business man businessy talk in the world doesn't hide the fact that they're taking a thing that has less and less appeal to new generations and putting a pair of DC puffy laced skate shoes on it and hanging around the playground looking like dorks... "Hey bruh, how about those X-Games, pretty 'sick' huh?"
223355	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	81	SeniorGrom	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T10:55:50-0400	Artz said: Firewire is pretty much run like an automobile company. Give the dealer an i victory. with terms 90 days with zero interest. then low interest beyond that. Board models that are not selling well they may offer a bonus. Meet a sales quota and another bonus. There is a lot of money that is behind the curtain in auto sales. Money to dear ships for advertising. Money to spruce up the show room. The auto companies want there dealers to present a company image. All car companies have architects and designers working for them. pretty much the same for Furniture stores, Appliances. And other consumer goods. They sell goods but the real money is in the financing of those cars, washer dryers and that bedroom set. I am seeing new financing on ads for Sporting goods that offer the consumer terms. "Afterpay" is one company that I have seen. There are others as well. you can bet that Firewire is looking into the consumer finance on Surfboards. Something like 20% down and monthly payments. Click to expand... The difference is car dealers are franchisees having a legal agreement with the manufacturer or distributorship in the geographic area. The dealers get marketing support to 'move the metal'. Most dealers do not own the inventory but pay a monthly floor plan loan % to their bank. As cars are sold the VINs are reported to the bank. Inventory is removed but more added as vehicles are shipped and 'on the ground'. With the recent chip shortage, new car inventories are very very low and as a result used car values at an all time high!
223357	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	82	Bruce Fowler	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T11:07:20-0400	SMUKES said: There's a few differences between surfboards and what are know as "durable goods". I'd be very surprised to see that model take off in any meaningful way. One of the biggest problems I see with Liarwire is hubris, and an overblown sense of potential, markets and surfing in general. They're kids playing dress up. And all of the business man businessy talk in the world doesn't hide the fact that they're taking a thing that has less and less appeal to new generations and putting a pair of DC puffy laced skate shoes on it and hanging around the playground looking like dorks... "Hey bruh, how about those X-Games, pretty 'sick' huh?" Click to expand... ....another solid observation. I read some back history about FW awhile back. They were all but going down the tubes then Kelly got involved. Last time I googled Slater's net worth was around $13 mil. The article involved somebody from Firewire speaking at a college about their business plan, being a sustainable company and other rose, glowing feel good things that young idealistic, impressionable minds would latch onto. No one wants to be equated to a sweatshop in Southeast Asia using Bondo by the drum then covering all that cheap EPS, Bondo and other slop with a beautiful paint job. Hence the Surftechs & Firewire of the world. Say it ain't so, but that was the m.o. happening with sailboards ing built in China in the 80's..... the Seatrends, Sailboards Maui, and other labels. C.O.B.R.A. is a different drill, that company w/around 2400 employees just outside of Bangkok is doing state of the art stuff for marine & other industries. Yater told me about a visit he took there years ago, and he was very impressed. Renny's trip was back when they were doing his longboards out of EPS w/vac bagged veneer. I was fixing a broken in half board that someone had snapped @ Ocean Beach, and they brought it down to me to put back together. Renny saw it and told me "yeah these boards don't …
223364	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	83	SMUKES	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T11:58:10-0400	Yep. Mass production is unnecessary for surfboards. Good production is necessary. Popping out shit tons of wafers that few people want. Price, Aggurre and guys like the investors are from the the days of 2 ASR shows a year with bikinis floating around the floor with no regard for who was wearing them. Coke and airplanes and pro surfers selling cars and banks and dorritos. Long gone. They are banking (literally) on wavepools, the WSL and ISL and the Olympics. None of which are doing a thing.
223366	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	84	Bruce Fowler	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T12:08:37-0400	I WAS impressed how well the pros could surf in the Olympic washing machine conditions. That bump would've thrown most riders off...... way harder than it looks. Wave Pools to save the day? Hmmm, that remains to be scene, but like windsurfing, the wave pool, restaurant & lounge overlooking the break and comfortable family and VIP suites might be a burgeoning new market. Like the ski resorts with the girl with a fake cast on her leg hanging around the bar or fireplace hoping to entrap a good looking millionaire.... never say never...
223368	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	85	XXX	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T12:15:50-0400	SMUKES said: Yep. Mass production is unnecessary for surfboards. Good production is necessary. Popping out shit tons of wafers that few people want. Price, Aggurre and guys like the investors are from the the days of 2 ASR shows a year with bikinis floating around the floor with no regard for who was wearing them. Coke and airplanes and pro surfers selling cars and banks and dorritos. Long gone. They are banking (literally) on wavepools, the WSL and ISL and the Olympics. None of which are doing a thing. Click to expand... We're far from the center of things here, but it appears change is in the air, or maybe it's just accelerating. If the cost to a shop for a Firewire is ~$150, I suppose other mass production brands come in similarly? That's got to affect anyone involved in hand made production. When I was working in village level international development we observed the effect of ultra cheap, and shoddy, Chinese made plastics on the local traditional crafts. Individuals and families producing hand made baskets, boxes, bowls, etc., etc., had to find alternative employment, and often move to larger towns and cities. The results was lost skills, disruption to rural populations, overcrowded cities, more poverty and homelessness, and oceans full of discarded plastic crap. Someone earlier in the thread asked why care where your (or someone else's) surfboard comes from. That's an uninformed attitude in my opinion.
223371	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	86	miscreant	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T12:29:47-0400	Image processing. Refresh page to view
223380	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	87	Bruce Fowler	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T13:48:01-0400	miscreant said: View attachment 35473 Click to expand... I like the one picture = 1K words. Confucious say "boy who live on hill not level".
223381	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	88	SMUKES	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T13:51:55-0400	Until little kids think it's cool it'll continue to contract. Mass production isn't cool, there's no counter culture there so there's no "there" there. Who cares how many units you can make or distribute if nobody wants to ride ah, your unit.
223397	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	89	Artz	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T16:21:29-0400	Bruce Fowler said: Artz, That is a very astute observation! For the last couple years or so I've seen guys in Ca offering a payment plan for their surfboards. Mainly guys out of or around Huntington Beach area. That would be an accounting nightmare for a lone wolf operation like me. Other than subcontracting glassing to Haakenson, I'm a one man operation. The same held true when I was approached then ended up doing the equivalent to a business start up for the Stoker V Machine. No one helped me....... that grew from me building 100% of the boards in my garage. It was such the burn out until I could make the leap to send glassing out. My education was in Business, Engineering & Physics. That leaves me ill prepared to deal within the numbskull world of dealing with what makes surfers tick. My only saving grace on that is being a surfer myself since that fated right slide @ the Sand Bar in 1959. Now I think being a "surfer" means something entirely different than then. I don't even know what 'that' means now, to be quite honest. Click to expand... I think you may find a leander that would handle all the financial end of things. You would get a cut of the profits. Joe surfer wants 3 new boards. Wants to do a layaway. You offer him a better deal. 20% Down and a monthly payment plan. there is a small interest. The finance company might give interest free for 90 days then charge interest. Joe surfer. Uses his credit card for the down payment the finance company arranges an automatic payment on the card. Joe surfer walks out with 3 lboards and He hasn't maxed out his credit card. Of course he needs to have a good credit rating. I looked not this when I was shopping for an Electric Bike. Put $250 down get the bike delivered in a few days. 90 days interest free. $ 1,500 Bike. One of the reasons why EBikes are selling so fast. I did not do the deal found a used E bike for a lot less.
223415	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	90	Artz	Oct 14, 2021	2021-10-14T19:35:20-0400	SeniorGrom said: The difference is car dealers are franchisees having a legal agreement with the manufacturer or distributorship in the geographic area. The dealers get marketing support to 'move the metal'. Most dealers do not own the inventory but pay a monthly floor plan loan % to their bank. As cars are sold the VINs are reported to the bank. Inventory is removed but more added as vehicles are shipped and 'on the ground'. With the recent chip shortage, new car inventories are very very low and as a result used car values at an all time high! Click to expand... Most have 90 days net. They need to move inventory out the door. That is why at the end of the month you can get a good deal. They want to meet that sales quota. It means a big bonus. There are also big incentives weak modles. Get someone to test drive one and the salesperson could get $100. In their pay check. SMUKES said: Until little kids think it's cool it'll continue to contract. Mass production isn't cool, there's no counter culture there so there's no "there" there. Who cares how many units you can make or distribute if nobody wants to ride ah, your unit. Click to expand... Firewire couldn't be the biggest Monkey in the Circus If the masses didn't throw their money at them. You can thank the cult of all things Kelly.
223425	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	91	DJR	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-14T21:00:02-0400	miscreant said: Dysphemism aside, I've got nothing to get out. Rather, I'm just scratching my head , trying to figure out how the content on this thread helps our community. I mean... who cares what one thinks regarding what one finds as acceptable? The blathering is remotely entertaining though. Click to expand... Made me get out the old dictionary - well played
223426	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	92	SeniorGrom	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-14T21:12:02-0400	Artz said: Most have 90 days net. They need to move inventory out the door. That is why at the end of the month you can get a good deal. They want to meet that sales quota. It means a big bonus. There are also big incentives weak modles. Get someone to test drive one and the salesperson could get $100. In their pay check. Firewire couldn't be the biggest Monkey in the Circus If the masses didn't throw their money at them. You can thank the cult of all things Kelly. Click to expand... You have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop pretending you know everything about all subjects. What are "weak modles"? One thing I know for sure spelling and grammar need improvement. I agree with the Kelly comment though.
223427	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	93	DJR	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-14T21:14:37-0400	Artz said: Firewire wants to reverse engineer. Those kids boards. Click to expand... Timbertek
223442	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	94	Ricksurfin	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-14T21:55:43-0400	I repeat, the shop cost for Firewire boards is not $150, try 3-4 times that. The landed price for Firewire may be $150, but that’s what Firewire has into them, not what the shops cost is.
223459	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	95	Sax-son	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T00:03:27-0400	Ricksurfin said: I repeat, the shop cost for Firewire boards is not $150, try 3-4 times that. The landed price for Firewire may be $150, but that's what Firewire has into them, not what the shops cost is. Click to expand... In my ignorance of all things that pertain to Firewire boards, I actually had to look up their website to get a clue of what people are talking about. However, after viewing their catalog so to speak, that is something I would not be interested in personally. Unfortunately, that's just me and others may think differently. Their prices are not cheap so I don't really understand the incentive to buy one.
223481	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	96	Artz	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T10:44:03-0400	SeniorGrom said: You have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop pretending you know everything about all subjects. What are "weak modles"? One thing I know for sure spelling and grammar need improvement. I agree with the Kelly comment though. Click to expand... Get over yourself I am Dyslexic. But Not a stupid ass. When you don't have anything of value to say. go after spelling and punctuation.
223482	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	97	Bruce Fowler	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T10:48:03-0400	Ricksurfin said: I repeat, the shop cost for Firewire boards is not $150, try 3-4 times that. The landed price for Firewire may be $150, but that's what Firewire has into them, not what the shops cost is. Click to expand... Okay,, so the "landed price" meaning they paid themselves for overhead, materials, labor, shipping, marketing to get the product to market at $150....... so who distributes them at this end charging shop accounts $450 to $600? That actually doesn't make sense. A distributor doesn't make that kind of profit esp. when dealing with volume distribution. The classic formula back when, was a manufacturer has to produce a product for $1 and sell it @ $3 before it ever makes it to the consumer. The retail entity buying the product would often 'keystone' aka double the price they bought it for. Some products have less margin (like yachts, aircraft) while others have more. Now days you see all the hopeful entrepreneurs on "Shark Tank" pitching their product(s) and the margins are a 1 to 12 ratio or much more than 1:3.......... and the ones that are lean on margin are always told to go offshore to have the product made. If the shops are taking them on consignment, and many are, then perhaps the pricing is reflected for that method of selling to the shops, but I seriously doubt it is 3X to 4X the landed price. I guess I can ask shop owners I know what their price is........ either way, Firewire flooded the market w/their product from SF to the Mexican border, and I think there isn't a high demand for the boards. I've had plenty of guys that had a Baked Potato or some other model that they were getting off to get one of mine. II don't care how Firewire spin doctors it, the boards are cheap to make in Asia, and that allows them the margin for marketing, demo vans to hit beaches, freebies to pro surfers, and the gamut. That money has to come from somewhere and unless they are operating at a loss the nuts & bolts making for a bottom line h…
223490	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	98	Surfnfish	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T11:50:20-0400	Regardless of mark-up, surfboard sales couldn't pay the rent in most shops, it's just the eye candy to get folks in...take away the T-shirts, hoodies and gal clothing sales, most shops would close. The thing is, with the previously mentioned 30 million plus wave riders on the globe, popouts are essential, and the more the merrier. Otherwise those long ques those of us waiting on custom boards are in? They wouldn't be six months, they'd be six years.
223497	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	99	SMUKES	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T12:10:34-0400	30m plus is waaaaay over estimated.
223499	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	100	XXX	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T12:20:44-0400	SMUKES said: 30m plus is waaaaay over estimated. Click to expand... Except half of them showed up at my local break since the pandemic began.
223500	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	101	Bruce Fowler	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T12:32:52-0400	Too funny. I doubt there are 30 million surfers worldwide. I don't know who or how we could fact check that. Surfing is far different from how I remember it growing up. Not saying that is good nor bad, just different as how many things have changed whether in sports or lifestyle. And yes, surfboards have always been known as the 'loss leader' in retail stores because they take the most space netting the least profit. Rusty was quoted once saying the most detrimental element to the whole surfboard industry is "the bro deal". I'd like to get a bro deal on my dental work, from my auto mechanic, or legal counsel. Actually maybe I did......... years ago I had a whole network of barter with those same people.... and then some. And it was always nice, while having 'the Underground' in the old radon boatyard, that one of my regulars would bring me some fish, lobster or abalone as a tip and thank you for making them sleds.
223511	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	102	Ricksurfin	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T14:02:12-0400	Bruce Fowler said: Okay,, so the "landed price" meaning they paid themselves for overhead, materials, labor, shipping, marketing to get the product to market at $150....... so who distributes them at this end charging shop accounts $450 to $600? That actually doesn't make sense. A distributor doesn't make that kind of profit esp. when dealing with volume distribution. The classic formula back when, was a manufacturer has to produce a product for $1 and sell it @ $3 before it ever makes it to the consumer. The retail entity buying the product would often 'keystone' aka double the price they bought it for. Some products have less margin (like yachts, aircraft) while others have more. Now days you see all the hopeful entrepreneurs on "Shark Tank" pitching their product(s) and the margins are a 1 to 12 ratio or much more than 1:3.......... and the ones that are lean on margin are always told to go offshore to have the product made. If the shops are taking them on consignment, and many are, then perhaps the pricing is reflected for that method of selling to the shops, but I seriously doubt it is 3X to 4X the landed price. I guess I can ask shop owners I know what their price is........ either way, Firewire flooded the market w/their product from SF to the Mexican border, and I think there isn't a high demand for the boards. I've had plenty of guys that had a Baked Potato or some other model that they were getting off to get one of mine. II don't care how Firewire spin doctors it, the boards are cheap to make in Asia, and that allows them the margin for marketing, demo vans to hit beaches, freebies to pro surfers, and the gamut. That money has to come from somewhere and unless they are operating at a loss the nuts & bolts making for a bottom line has to be attractive unless your looking for a tax write-off (not even sure how you would enjoy that when owning an offshore, non domestic business). Click to expand... Trust me, I know what the shop price …
223517	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	103	Bruce Fowler	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T14:45:01-0400	Ricksurfin said: Trust me, I know what the shop price is as I managed a shop for years and did purchasing. I question the landed price of $150 that you quoted and I believe it's wrong. I also don't believe Firewire has that much profit margin. Click to expand... I've been told that landing price NUMEROUS TIMES from people in the business. We can agree to disagree. You purchased for a shop............... I just landed 60 Soft Tops in a shared container that went up from $2k to $10k in one month. Do you really believe I don't know the cost to land something? Leon picks up their stuff in SF when it comes in...... a 20 ft container hold 170 boards...... how about a 40 ft. container. Gotta shape....... have a gr8 one.
223525	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	104	Surfnfish	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T15:41:44-0400	Surfing's inclusion in the 2020 Olympics is a testament to the sport's global growth. According to the International Surfing Association (ISA), the world governing body for surfing, more than 35 million people surf. The ISA has also grown from 32 member nations in 1995 to more than 100, including non-traditional surfing markets like Russia, Sierra Leone and Iran. There are 2.874 million surfing participants in the United States, according to the Sports & Fitness Industry Association. From 2017-18, the amount of surfing participants in the country increased by 7.3%.
223531	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	105	SMUKES	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T17:03:32-0400	The ISA and Fernando have a certain "take" on surfing that supports their narrative, and their businesses. They will count every kid renting a boogie board at every resort around the globe etc... to support his stated life's goal and triumph of getting surfing into the Olympics. The ISA exists to promote surfing, its success is calibrated by that number. I mean coming here lol.
223534	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	106	Planktom	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T17:35:20-0400	Bullseye
223542	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	107	dubhulloh7	Oct 15, 2021	2021-10-15T19:17:22-0400	Thoughts on electric planers vs hand planers?
223560	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	108	SMUKES	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-15T22:05:54-0400	Electric planers use electricity.
223579	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	109	Bruce Fowler	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T09:09:38-0400	dubhulloh7 said: Thoughts on electric planers vs hand planers? Click to expand... Did "Bear living under the pier" use electricity and a "power (electric) planer" or an adz.? Is ANY surfboard shaper using anything but a tool powered by his own body NOT hand shaping, or is a "hand shaper" a guy or gal that HOLDS any tool IN HIS HANDS a "hand shaper". ..........who's on first? OY.
223583	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	110	Sax-son	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T11:19:30-0400	Ricksurfin said: Trust me, I know what the shop price is as I managed a shop for years and did purchasing. I question the landed price of $150 that you quoted and I believe it's wrong. I also don't believe Firewire has that much profit margin. Click to expand... It might have been that landed price of $150.00 at one time, but I doubt it's that way now. The manufacturing bidding price might be cheaper, but it's the shipping that killing everything now. That's why I don't get all this "China" advantage, if all the costs are going for shipping, you may as well just build them here.
223584	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	111	Sax-son	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T11:28:28-0400	Surfnfish said: The thing is, with the previously mentioned 30 million plus wave riders on the globe, popouts are essential, and the more the merrier. Click to expand... I find that very hard to believe that there are that many surfers world wide. 10% of that may have been on a surfboard once in their life, but continuously, I doubt it. There are a number of people coming into and out of the sport and although it may seem extremely crowded at your local surf spot, those numbers are over the top from my observations.
223585	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	112	Ricksurfin	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T11:40:28-0400	The landed price is just what it costs to get a finished board on US soil, and is just the tip of the iceberg on the total cost of doing business. So, I do actually believe in the $150 landed cost, but doesn’t begin to take into account what the total cost to bring the board to market (I.e. transport, warehousing, personnel, insurance, and so on). So the bottom line is the landed price doesn’t truly reflect what the cost per board to Firewire truly is.
223604	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	113	Bruce Fowler	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T14:22:33-0400	Ricksurfin said: The landed price is just what it costs to get a finished board on US soil, and is just the tip of the iceberg on the total cost of doing business. So, I do actually believe in the $150 landed cost, but doesn't begin to take into account what the total cost to bring the board to market (I.e. transport, warehousing, personnel, insurance, and so on). So the bottom line is the landed price doesn't truly reflect what the cost per board to Firewire truly is. Click to expand... I just went thru ALL OF THESE COSTS last month. So what I cited was based on receiving delivery less than 4 weeks ago. I crunch numbers for everything I do and have done for years. With an education in Business, I'm more along the lines of Bruce Jones, who had a degree in Business & Accounting. Yes, there are new fees being levied all the time. Unloading, California import tax, cost for delivery of container...... and storage/warehouse (I'm not incurring those). FW has been doing it for a long time and I am sure they have the best bang for the buck scenario once the products get here.
223607	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	114	SMUKES	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T14:32:29-0400	Kelly paddles each board across the Straits of Taiwan illustrating his comment to reducing their carbon footprint.
223617	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	115	Bruce Fowler	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T16:18:09-0400	Sax-son said: It might have been that landed price of $150.00 at one time, but I doubt it's that way now. The manufacturing bidding price might be cheaper, but it's the shipping that killing everything now. That's why I don't get all this "China" advantage, if all the costs are going for shipping, you may as well just build them here. Click to expand... We might be having bit of a disconnect. Looking at the FW retail prices at $800 to $900 is revealing. Someone is making a VERY good margin or let's hope it is at least being realized by both the retail shops & the manufacturer/distributor. Maybe with all the recent hikes on shipping & fees they may be seeing an increase landing closer to $180, but their volume is more likely to have them fall somewhere in between. So maybe it is more like $165 then they split the margin with the shops. That would great if they did that, but I doubt they do. It would help the shops to actually make some money from surfboards. Some shops are able to do that. Mollusk has big markups on the boards they sell. I know that because I sold to them for years. In quite a few cases, they made more than I did!
223620	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	116	DanSan	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T16:40:11-0400	Bruce Lee ..in Enter the Dragon...had a good idea on how get more boards here " we could take this boat..."
223622	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	117	shapewright	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T17:01:56-0400	Bruce Fowler said: I've been told that landing price NUMEROUS TIMES from people in the business. We can agree to disagree. You purchased for a shop............... I just landed 60 Soft Tops in a shared container that went up from $2k to $10k in one month. Do you really believe I don't know the cost to land something? Leon picks up their stuff in SF when it comes in...... a 20 ft container hold 170 boards...... how about a 40 ft. container. Gotta shape....... have a gr8 one. Click to expand... Bruce Fowler said: I've been told that landing price NUMEROUS TIMES from people in the business. We can agree to disagree. You purchased for a shop............... I just landed 60 Soft Tops in a shared container that went up from $2k to $10k in one month. Do you really believe I don't know the cost to land something? Leon picks up their stuff in SF when it comes in...... a 20 ft container hold 170 boards...... how about a 40 ft. container. Gotta shape....... have a gr8 one. Click to expand... Decades ago I was prepared to study Mandarin and be Ron Jon's man in the know in China. The Ron Jon China were with shipping and duties hitting our shores for 135.00$
223626	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	118	Bruce Fowler	Oct 16, 2021	2021-10-16T17:35:44-0400	shapewright said: Decades ago I was prepared to study Mandarin and be Ron Jon's man in the know in China. The Ron Jon China were with shipping and duties hitting our shores for 135.00$ Click to expand... Interesting. My understanding was Ron Jon was the first to quietly go to China. Unlike the USA, things didn't inflate like a hot air ballon then....... you can get stuff even cheaper in Vietnam, and of course a lot of good stuff too, like most any country.
223837	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	119	XXX	Oct 19, 2021	2021-10-19T10:18:10-0400	There's a story goin' round that the cargo ship back-up includes tens of thousands of Chinese made pop-outs priced under $100 for the Christmas market. Kinda like pet rocks, or cabbage patch dolls or something similarly vogue. Image processing. Refresh page to view
223843	11440	Molded, Reverse Engineered, Handshaped by One Only...WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?	120	Bruce Fowler	Oct 19, 2021	2021-10-19T10:45:50-0400	The back up with super freighter cargo ships is a probable for every company relying on Asia (and other places) for a supply chain. If you have your eggs all in one basket, you're probably screwed for now. Quite a few of the surfboards labels produce domestically & offshore. Some of that has to do with saving on shipping. Everyone I know right now with glass shops is stacked full of work, and although that is an inconvenience for the customer as far as wait time, it is good for guys getting paid by the piece in the shops. I'm investing in building a lot of stock boards in my models because I can enjoy a better R.O.I. (Return on Investment) than having the money in a "ladder of C.D.s", Bonds, ETF's, REITs, T Bills, Money Management Account, and other such investment options, which my Schwab portfolio already addresses. I don't need to pay for storage or warehousing, knock on wood....... with nearly an acre I have space to accommodate as needed including shaping at home........ so no overhead for an office, storage, shaping room, packing station....... a legit home business set up is bliss..... no daily commute and my car insurance is based on providing minimum mileage driven for a run to the glass shop 40 miles down the highway once a week. Minimal exposure to other humans too....... for those that are obsessed with Covid, which, from a pathological perspective, will be with us (like the flu or common cold) for eternity.

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