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| post_id ▼ | thread_id | thread_title | post_number | author_username | post_date | post_date_iso | post_body |
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| 219726 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 1 | jonbiz | Sep 10, 2021 | 2021-09-10T19:36:42-0400 | Going to post all info and ideas about Twinzers, current shapers that are doing them properly. #1 Wil Jobson the master and guru of the design. He had a formula on his fin placement them only Rusty and Blue Hawaii paid him. I've reach out to Rusty and nothing I've been searching for Will for years and no luck, last I heard was trailer park in Arizona not doing well. # Dane Parlee worked with Wil and is about as close as you can get. # Ward Coffey # Joey Thomas #Vince Brogilo glassed Wil board # Rob Goin # Nick Palandrani Wil mentored him and has formulas and some of Wils old templates. #Pearson Arrow. #David Vernor #Manny Caro worked with Wil as well. I'm probably missing some Santa Cruz guys but all of these guys worked with Wil at some point. Down south #Tim Stamps #Mabile #Barry Synder #Stu Kenson East Coast # Brian Wynn # Mike Daniels Hawaii # Minami Probably more but not sure. Twinzers are amazing and frustrating at the same time. Fin placement is very important for the design to function correctly. Reason for experimenting. Wil had it figured out. It helps to know if your a front foot or rear footed surfer, this will help with placement. Standard placement is 8 to 8.5 inches from tail. 4 to 6 degrees of cant on mains around 1-3/8 from rail. Ive moved mine back to around 7 inches and really enjoy the extra drive and hold Canards are the hardest to figure out. 1 inch to 1-1/4 inch gap. Can't is from 6 to 9 degrees Overlap is all over the place, I've been trying less overlap, 1/4 inch is a good place to start. For Fins FCS are great so you can make your own and move them back or forth, can make a dud board fire. This will require you to Mack your own fins. When done correctly you get speed of a twin, turns like a thruster without that anchor. Ill go and look over all my notes and add some more info @hankster is another Twinzer guy and knows what works. Feel free to add … |
| 219738 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 2 | hankster | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-10T21:43:30-0400 | Don't forget to add Stu kenson to the list. He, along with Larry Mabile, worked for Rusty and they know the secret sauce. |
| 219741 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 3 | SMUKES | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-10T22:10:34-0400 | My twinzers (Larmo and Gary McNab) surfed nothing like a thruster. Which is why I like them. |
| 219745 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 4 | jonbiz | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-10T22:25:43-0400 | Totally forgot about Stu |
| 219746 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 5 | jonbiz | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-10T22:27:55-0400 | To add Brian Wynn worked at Rusty and learned from Stu. |
| 219747 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 6 | hankster | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-10T22:29:27-0400 | SMUKES said: My twinzers (Larmo and Gary McNab) surfed nothing like a thruster. Which is why I like them. Click to expand... That's precisely why great minds think alike. After riding a properly built Twinzer, I see no reason to ever ride a thruster again. |
| 219763 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 7 | jonbiz | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T06:35:20-0400 | @hankster hit it on the head. |
| 219765 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 8 | jonbiz | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T07:56:28-0400 | Another thing, Twinzers is fin placement needs to be adjusted for the style of board. This is the main reason some work and others are just a twin fin |
| 219766 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 9 | XXX | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T09:13:20-0400 | hankster said: That's precisely why great minds think alike. After riding a properly built Twinzer, I see no reason to ever ride a thruster again. Click to expand... I'd like to see some photos of these 'properly built' Twinzer surfboards: plan shape, fins, channels (if any), etc. View attachment long-ez-lift.jpg |
| 219787 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 10 | DJR | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T15:25:20-0400 | Is there a certain bottom that must be incorporated, one to be avoided, or a pretty good gray area from what youve seen/ridden/learned? |
| 219790 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 11 | SMUKES | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T15:56:39-0400 | Both were fish for me, with slight to moderate singe concave. |
| 219795 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 12 | dingdong | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T16:08:55-0400 | there's a huge thread on the surfer mag forums on twinzers....lots of design info along with self shape pics and info in there..fins...everything |
| 219815 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 13 | jonbiz | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T18:14:56-0400 | There’s a few guys on the surfer forum that really know the Twinzer design. We actually chat a fair amount about them. Pros and cons. For bottom very shallow concave and vee out the tail is the most common. The Jobson I just got is concave with a little double between fins exits with vee. Haven’t had a chance to really study it. |
| 219821 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 14 | Ricksurfin | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T19:10:22-0400 | Just saw this on CL for you twinzer guys. https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/spo/d/newport-beach-fs-95-larry-mabile/7379040058.html |
| 219823 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 15 | kpd73 | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T19:34:53-0400 | Wayne Okamoto - Oak Foils surfboards Russel Hoyte are of very mentionable notice. Nice thread here. Good, fresh air. I love my Austin mini simms as a twinzer. Love |
| 219827 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 16 | jonbiz | Sep 11, 2021 | 2021-09-11T19:56:06-0400 | Wayne at oak foil is also another one. The best shapers of the twinzer are guys who ride them as as well. Rob Brown is another great twinzer shaper. Fun fact: he created the numbster fin and was the ghost shaper for Von Solsurfboards. https://instagram.com/sanolocal?utm_medium=copy_link |
| 219853 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 17 | John | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T07:56:36-0400 | Thank you for posting all of this info. Its really helpful but also a little beyond my understanding when talking about fin placement and cant. For a newbie, is there an "ideal" shape for the twinzer? SK posted a 6'6 or 6'8 mini log with a twinzer a few months ago that seemed interesting but most seem to on a fish or egg shape. |
| 219860 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 18 | jonbiz | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T11:16:51-0400 | John said: Thank you for posting all of this info. Its really helpful but also a little beyond my understanding when talking about fin placement and cant. For a newbie, is there an "ideal" shape for the twinzer? SK posted a 6'6 or 6'8 mini log with a twinzer a few months ago that seemed interesting but most seem to on a fish or egg shape. Click to expand... When fins placement is correct they will work on any board. Lots of Santa Cruz guys have them on their gunz. Even out at Mavericks. |
| 219880 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 19 | WillieP | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T16:16:04-0400 | I have them in a couple of Honey Badgers. Had Larmo put in a single fin box as well. View attachment 158E1D97-8B9A-4A19-A3CC-0A51F5057E03.jpeg View attachment A1D5EED8-365C-47C3-9262-2ACB94E056E7.jpeg |
| 219884 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 20 | DJR | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T16:36:57-0400 | WillieP said: I have them in a couple of Honey Badgers. Had Larmo put in a single fin box as well. View attachment 34351 View attachment 34352 Click to expand... Which do you prefer? |
| 219886 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 21 | WillieP | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T16:58:23-0400 | They ride different. More of drawn out turn as a single and tighter and more square of a turn as a twinzer. |
| 219889 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 22 | JMJackFish | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T17:19:47-0400 | I have a few Mabile's and a Nine Lights now. Love the setup. My board from Jeff at Nine Lights is top notch. |
| 219892 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 23 | ugoinright? | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T17:58:15-0400 | JMJackFish said: I have a few Mabile's and a Nine Lights now. Love the setup. My board from Jeff at Nine Lights is top notch. Click to expand... Pictures of the NL please |
| 219896 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 24 | jonbiz | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T18:08:05-0400 | I've seen @JMJackFish NL twinzer. Got some dimensions from it. This is awesome. |
| 219900 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 25 | JMJackFish | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T18:58:05-0400 | View attachment tempImageOLz0hs.png View attachment tempImagej9oimB.png |
| 219902 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 26 | kpd73 | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T19:04:05-0400 | JMJackFish said: View attachment 34368 View attachment 34369 Click to expand... View attachment twinzerdudes.jpg |
| 219903 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 27 | bfat | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T19:17:03-0400 | JMJackFish said: View attachment 34368 View attachment 34369 Click to expand... Cork deck? Radical. Very into this nine lights. Yeesh. @JMJackFish did you request this build or did Jeff recommend? Is it sealed? Back to twinzers, though... @WillieP , on the twinzer plus one designs, can you still throw in a 2+1 setup or is the placement of the twin fin boxes too far off in order to accomodate the canards? |
| 219904 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 28 | JMJackFish | Sep 12, 2021 | 2021-09-12T19:27:26-0400 | Jeff was great to work with. I wanted a cork board and we decided that I should stick to my fish/twinzer setup as our starting point. It is sealed - and hasn't shown a heel dent despite plenty of sessions. |
| 219910 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 29 | ugoinright? | Sep 13, 2021 | 2021-09-12T20:46:50-0400 | JMJackFish said: Jeff was great to work with. I wanted a cork board and we decided that I should stick to my fish/twinzer setup as our starting point. It is sealed - and hasn't shown a heel dent despite plenty of sessions. Click to expand... Drooling here! Have you surf the cork without wax? Is it more comfortable on your feet? |
| 219911 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 30 | JMJackFish | Sep 13, 2021 | 2021-09-12T21:11:05-0400 | It handles fine without wax but I am old and like the extra traction. I can tell the cork absorbs some of chop compared to the Hess I had which shared all other construction attributes. As far as durability - it is crazy tough. In/out boat, truck, racks, bouncing around in the water - no noticeable anything. For this thread on twinzers - Jeff put a hard edge up 60% of the bottom. The fins aren't parallel. His cant is a little more aggressive than Larry's. For it's size it surprisingly goes great in the pitchy waves. But like Jon - I like the Twinzer feelz. I put that pic up to show a little range. My biggest issue with them is the lack of and price of fins, and also a good box system for builds. Glass on's are great (Jeff at NineLights makes fantastic ones) but are tricky to install correctly. Jobson didn't like roving on the canard and these would suffer damage and need frequent repairs. A log with the setup would be fun... |
| 219920 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 31 | hankster | Sep 13, 2021 | 2021-09-13T03:11:25-0400 | DJR said: Is there a certain bottom that must be incorporated, one to be avoided, or a pretty good gray area from what youve seen/ridden/learned? Click to expand... I wish I were more qualified to answer. The bottom on Wil's boards are remarkably flat. I've seen some Stu Kenson Twinzer eggs that incorporate channel bottoms. I'd really like to try one of those. |
| 219970 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 32 | XXX | Sep 13, 2021 | 2021-09-13T14:35:55-0400 | I'm curious about fin foil, fronts and mains. Symmetrical or flat on inside surfaces? Is there something extraordinary about this fin set up? Aren't the front (canards, or leading edge extensions) primarily serving to improve water flow over the larger main fins? And what about tail rocker? |
| 220005 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 33 | jonbiz | Sep 13, 2021 | 2021-09-13T19:21:11-0400 | Mains and canards are flat. I’ve never seen inside foil, heard rumors of Wil using them. I’ve got fins unlimited who used the dynamic balance template Wils label and some from Rainbow. The Board that Wil shaped has the fins I’ve seen I pictures upright. Bottom Rainbow fins are from a Jobson yellow J Top left are from Vernor. Looks to be what Joey Thompson uses. Second set is what Rainbow is selling Far right are what Fins Unlimited says is the Dynamic Balance template As you move the mains back you need to decrease the canards to help loosen the board up. The canards job is to pressurize the outside of the main so it won’t stall at high angles of attack (sharp turn). With too much overlap this is missed. |
| 220011 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 34 | WillieP | Sep 14, 2021 | 2021-09-13T20:16:35-0400 | The canards that come with Mabiles are canted such that when you put them together at the bases, they flare out instead of laying flat. Not sure how many degrees. I will say that Stu Kenson designs them both ways as a friend of mine got some some for a Mitsven long fish he ordered with a twinzer set up and the canards were flat. He reordered from Bob and got the ones that were canted Bob would get the fins from Stu. |
| 220013 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 35 | JMJackFish | Sep 14, 2021 | 2021-09-13T20:21:34-0400 | WillieP said: The canards that come with Mabiles are canted such that when you put them together at the bases, they flare out instead of laying flat. Not sure how many degrees. I will say that Stu Kenson designs them both ways as a friend of mine got some some for a Mitsven long fish he ordered with a twinzer set up and the canards were flat. He reordered from Bob and got the ones that were canted Bob would get the fins from Stu. Click to expand... My Mabile's are at 5 and 8 degrees it looks like based on my gauge. |
| 220022 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 36 | jonbiz | Sep 14, 2021 | 2021-09-13T20:45:44-0400 | Cant of canards should be around 10/11 degrees. Mains 4/6 degrees |
| 220131 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 37 | DJR | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-14T21:56:25-0400 | jonbiz said: When fins placement is correct they will work on any board. Lots of Santa Cruz guys have them on their gunz. Even out at Mavericks. Click to expand... From what I understand Richard Schmidt still rides only twinzers and has for decades |
| 220152 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 38 | jonbiz | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-15T06:54:32-0400 | DJR said: From what I understand Richard Schmidt still rides only twinzers and has for decades Click to expand... Richard with a Joey Thomas Twinzer. |
| 220157 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 39 | Bigyummm | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-15T09:08:49-0400 | I've got a 7'0" Larmo twinzer that absolutely flies. I'm not a great surfer (getting better) but I often get comments from guys in the water about how fast the board is. It just locks into the wave. I love it. Am tempted to get another from him as mine is approaching beater stage. Anyone have a good set of canards they recommend with Larmo's setup? The set I have on the tips of the canards overlap the plane of the front edge of the mains and I wonder if a more vertical and or smaller canard would loosen the feel up just a little bit? Or maybe that overlap is desireable, I've seen smaller canards on other Twinzers which is why I ask Great thread here, thanks! |
| 220167 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 40 | John | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-15T12:07:25-0400 | Brigham03 said: I've got a 7'0" Larmo twinzer that absolutely flies. I'm not a great surfer (getting better) but I often get comments from guys in the water about how fast the board is. It just locks into the wave. I love it. Am tempted to get another from him as mine is approaching beater stage. Anyone have a good set of canards they recommend with Larmo's setup? The set I have on the tips of the canards overlap the plane of the front edge of the mains and I wonder if a more vertical and or smaller canard would loosen the feel up just a little bit? Or maybe that overlap is desireable, I've seen smaller canards on other Twinzers which is why I ask Great thread here, thanks! Click to expand... Nice!! What shape is your twinzer? |
| 220169 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 41 | jonbiz | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-15T12:15:57-0400 | From what I’ve come to understand and the overlap of the canards to mains. More overlap you get more of a twin fin feel,you loose the pressure the canards are trying to place on the mains. Hard turns you’ll feel that stalling. On mids and certain boars non issues. You might notice it on a high line of the wave. As for canard size it a tough one to figure out. It depends on placement and gap to main. |
| 220186 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 42 | jonbiz | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-15T14:04:20-0400 | Got the Jobson cleaned up and ready for next swell. @pintail thank you for your time and holding this for me. Three years of searching. @JMJackFish for stopping by work and telling me about it. |
| 220190 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 43 | Bigyummm | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-15T14:33:20-0400 | Beautiful! Thanks for the info. Mine is a winged fish. I'll post some pics of it and the fin placement/fin choice I have on it now. Your canards are more upright which I've noticed on a couple other Twinzers I've seen recently. I had no idea what to put on it when I bought it so I called Mollusk and they told me what to get, I think the canards are just 3.25" side bites but I'll confirm. |
| 220191 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 44 | jonbiz | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-15T14:36:05-0400 | Brigham03 said: Beautiful! Thanks for the info. Mine is a winged fish. I'll post some pics of it and the fin placement/fin choice I have on it now. Your canards are more upright which I've noticed on a couple other Twinzers I've seen recently. I had no idea what to put on it when I bought it so I called Mollusk and they told me what to get, I think the canards are just 3.25" side bites but I'll confirm. Click to expand... Depending on the boxes Fins unlimited and Rainbow make canards. Eventually I'll finally get around to making some. Too busy with work and too hot in garage currently. |
| 220223 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 45 | Camel Rock | Sep 15, 2021 | 2021-09-15T18:26:04-0400 | Here are a couple Larmo's to add to this thread for reference. 1st one is an 8'6˝ Big Swallow and the second is a 8´2˝ Eggstacy Model. Both feature Larry's FCS Twinzer twin tab template, which I believe are from Jenson. I know FCS was making a set of Larry's Twinzers years ago as well. View attachment IMG_3752.jpg View attachment IMG_3757.jpg View attachment IMG_3759.jpg View attachment IMG_0532.jpg View attachment IMG_0529.jpg |
| 220236 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 46 | DJR | Sep 16, 2021 | 2021-09-15T20:16:46-0400 | jonbiz said: Got the Jobson cleaned up and ready for next swell. @pintail thank you for your time and holding this for me. Three years of searching. @JMJackFish for stopping by work and telling me about it. Click to expand... There's always something beautiful about finding something from a creator be it a surfboard, ceramic, boat, anything |
| 220246 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 47 | hankster | Sep 16, 2021 | 2021-09-15T22:13:15-0400 | John said: Nice!! What shape is your twinzer? Click to expand... Yes, inquiring minds want to know. I'm thinking about ordering a Honey Badger Twinzer from Larmo. |
| 220248 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 48 | hankster | Sep 16, 2021 | 2021-09-15T22:25:28-0400 | jonbiz said: There's a few guys on the surfer forum that really know the Twinzer design. We actually chat a fair amount about them. Pros and cons. For bottom very shallow concave and vee out the tail is the most common. The Jobson I just got is concave with a little double between fins exits with vee. Haven't had a chance to really study it. Click to expand... Shoot, you have me second guessing myself. Perhaps I'm used to the significant concave of my Bonzers and Robin Mair quads, not to mention the Eaton Zingers! I'll have to lay a straight edge over the Jobson boards and report back. |
| 220250 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 49 | hankster | Sep 16, 2021 | 2021-09-15T22:32:29-0400 | jonbiz said: Wayne at oak foil is also another one. The best shapers of the twinzer are guys who ride them as as well. Rob Brown is another great twinzer shaper. Fun fact: he created the numbster fin and was the ghost shaper for Von Solsurfboards. https://instagram.com/sanolocal?utm_medium=copy_link Click to expand... Regarding Rob Brown, if in doubt, check it out. Props on the custom canard box. https://www.instagram.com/p/CT23xjKhTWf/ |
| 220305 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 50 | Bigyummm | Sep 16, 2021 | 2021-09-16T17:24:23-0400 | Camel Rock said: Here are a couple Larmo's to add to this thread for reference. 1st one is an 8'6˝ Big Swallow and the second is a 8´2˝ Eggstacy Model. Both feature Larry's FCS Twinzer twin tab template, which I believe are from Jenson. I know FCS was making a set of Larry's Twinzers years ago as well. View attachment 34472 View attachment 34473 View attachment 34474 View attachment 34475 View attachment 34477 Click to expand... Beautiful Larmos! I have the 7'0" twinzer fish (pics coming I promise just been busy), a 6'0" keel w glass on plywood fins and an 8'6" G&S classic shaped by Larmo. All the boards I have from him have magic in their bones. The twinzer is single through double concave I think, will check that as well. Are you saying that Jenson makes a set of twin tab twinzer fins? I haven't seen Larmo fins anywhere, did they stop making them? |
| 220308 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 51 | Bigyummm | Sep 16, 2021 | 2021-09-16T17:34:53-0400 | Just found these at happy battle. might be the only set they have at the moment https://www.happybattlesurfco.com/product-page/twinzer |
| 220345 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 52 | NCJohn | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T06:15:15-0400 | Here are the Jobson twinzers in original fcs https://www.finsunlimited.com/twinzer/dynamic-balance-twinzer |
| 220353 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 53 | Bigyummm | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T09:26:40-0400 | At long last here is the board I have questions about! I impulse bought the twinzer fins I posted from Happy Battle last night. Should've waited for everyone's input here but got super excited to see them available. Still very curious to hear what people think of the overlap of the canards with this setup and the bottom contour, cant, size, placement of fins etc. Looks more like this is a v to double concave out the tail? Is there a name for that shape, I've seen it on another board recently - a twin pin w channels a buddy just bought. View attachment IMG_2437.jpeg View attachment IMG_2434.jpeg View attachment IMG_2432.jpeg View attachment IMG_2431.jpeg View attachment IMG_2430.jpeg |
| 220356 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 54 | JMJackFish | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T09:58:30-0400 | Maybe that single tab front Canard that FU has in the front slot would be closer to what Will Jobson was pushing for with the design. My .02 |
| 220357 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 55 | Bigyummm | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T10:12:20-0400 | nice, didn't even think of using just the front slot... cool idea ! |
| 220361 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 56 | XXX | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T11:04:30-0400 | Brigham03 said: nice, didn't even think of using just the front slot... cool idea ! Click to expand... Or make your own canards by modifying an existing fin. Not sure if fcs has economical side bites or small thruster sets, but shops often have a box of take-offs you can experiment with. From the variety of twinzer set-ups I see, it seems that it's still pretty much wide open what works. |
| 220372 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 57 | takedown | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T12:12:07-0400 | @Brigham03 It looks like those mabile's might be a good choice for your board and the intended fin setup. I have a KG Twinzer, shaped by Larry, similar to yours and it came with what looks like the fins you just bought. Attached are the ones on my board. View attachment PXL_20210917_160333106.jpg |
| 220380 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 58 | XXX | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T13:12:15-0400 | takedown said: @Brigham03 It looks like those mabile's might be a good choice for your board and the intended fin setup. I have a KG Twinzer, shaped by Larry, similar to yours and it came with what looks like the fins you just bought. Attached are the ones on my board. View attachment 34522 Click to expand... It appears to me that proper fin box placement, if indeed the relationship between mains and canards is critical, would require the shaper/glasser to know in advance which fin set will be installed. Is there anything other than trial and error involved in determining the spacing and positioning of canards and main fins? For what it's worth, the fin set-up on the Barber in this video looks good to me. Board seems to go well. |
| 220405 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 59 | Bigyummm | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T18:01:39-0400 | Niau said: Or make your own canards by modifying an existing fin. Not sure if fcs has economical side bites or small thruster sets, but shops often have a box of take-offs you can experiment with. From the variety of twinzer set-ups I see, it seems that it's still pretty much wide open what works. Click to expand... That sounds rad. gotta get a little more familiar with that process |
| 220406 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 60 | Bigyummm | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T18:02:36-0400 | takedown said: @Brigham03 It looks like those mabile's might be a good choice for your board and the intended fin setup. I have a KG Twinzer, shaped by Larry, similar to yours and it came with what looks like the fins you just bought. Attached are the ones on my board. View attachment 34522 Click to expand... Sick! yea they look very similar if not identical. pumped to feel the difference |
| 220407 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 61 | Bigyummm | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T18:03:58-0400 | Niau said: It appears to me that proper fin box placement, if indeed the relationship between mains and canards is critical, would require the shaper/glasser to know in advance which fin set will be installed. Is there anything other than trial and error involved in determining the spacing and positioning of canards and main fins? For what it's worth, the fin set-up on the Barber in this video looks good to me. Board seems to go well. Click to expand... Truth. And it seems going with Mabile fins in my case is the way. But yea, trial and error I guess. Just wish I lived somewhere with more consistent waves so I could A / B more easily. haha |
| 220408 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 62 | WillieP | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T18:20:09-0400 | My Mabile twinzers came with fins made by NVS. I actually ordered a replacement set directly from them. They actually asked Larmo to give them permission to sell them to me directly. NVS also makes twinzer fins designed by Stu Kenson. |
| 220412 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 63 | Bigyummm | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T18:29:00-0400 | WillieP said: My Mabile twinzers came with fins made by NVS. I actually ordered a replacement set directly from them. They actually asked Larmo to give them permission to sell them to me directly. NVS also makes twinzer fins designed by Stu Kenson. Click to expand... Dope, I didn't see any Twinzers on their website but they make customs? |
| 220418 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 64 | jonbiz | Sep 17, 2021 | 2021-09-17T19:31:35-0400 | From my earlier post on fin overlap. The canards design is to pressurize the mains. Too much overlap you lose this and with sharp turns you get the stalling effect : basically it a twin fin to a degree: On mids and fish not as important, See below first set with lots of overlap board is loose but on back bottom turns it will stall out. Third and fourth picture is same canards but mains are pushed back. Tons more hold but not as loose, need to decrease the canard size to loosen board up. Boards super fun in both set ups but like less overlap for the hold. This is why FCS are great you can adjust fin tabs. |
| 220423 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 65 | XXX | Sep 18, 2021 | 2021-09-17T20:41:11-0400 | jonbiz said: From my earlier post on fin overlap. The canards design is to pressurize the mains. Too much overlap you lose this and with sharp turns you get the stalling effect : basically it a twin fin to a degree: On mids and fish not as important, See below first set with lots of overlap board is loose but on back bottom turns it will stall out. Third and fourth picture is same canards but mains are pushed back. Tons more hold but not as loose, need to decrease the canard size to loosen board up. Boards super fun in both set ups but like less overlap for the hold. This is why FCS are great you can adjust fin tabs. Click to expand... Cool. How do you adjust fin tabs on FCS? I appreciate your photos and explanation. To my eye, an arrangement that mimics a split keel would better create the effect you mention: "pressurize the mains"; more than two fins with roughly identical 'swept back' templates. Looks like mains and canards are both totally flat inside surface. |
| 220457 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 66 | jonbiz | Sep 18, 2021 | 2021-09-18T08:56:45-0400 | Niau said: Cool. How do you adjust fin tabs on FCS? I appreciate your photos and explanation. To my eye, an arrangement that mimics a split keel would better create the effect you mention: "pressurize the mains"; more than two fins with roughly identical 'swept back' templates. Looks like mains and canards are both totally flat inside surface. Click to expand... Split keel is a completely different design. The split keel came about by trying to loosen up a keel fish. The twinzer is completely different design. In the video surfer explain what he's feeling. You can see during the turns how it projects him up the wave and how well the board holds in the turns. To adjust FCS tabs requires you to make fins. I'll post pictures when I get a chance. Have to work soon. |
| 220465 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 67 | WillieP | Sep 18, 2021 | 2021-09-18T11:08:39-0400 | Brigham03 said: Dope, I didn't see any Twinzers on their website but they make customs? Click to expand... The Stu Kenson Twinzer fins are on their website located under the Apex Quad (4 fin) tab. The Mabile fins are custom that they make specifically for Larmo although they sold me some direct. |
| 220524 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 68 | jonbiz | Sep 19, 2021 | 2021-09-19T10:02:14-0400 | This is what I mean by adjusting FCS tabs. Make a new fin. Friend made me these a few years back. This way you can adjust the fin for the feel your after. the bigger fin moved forward with mover canard overlap is loose and twin fin feeling. Loose some hold and squirt on back hand. The smaller fin pushed back has way more hold and drive off bottom. This is all with the same canard and placement of canard. Would love to hit up a point break for a few weeks with one board and quiver of fins. Just put some smaller canards about 1/8 less base/ trailing edge in same board to test this week with some crappy wind swell. Will report back. |
| 220525 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 69 | XXX | Sep 19, 2021 | 2021-09-19T10:06:25-0400 | jonbiz said: This is what I mean by adjusting FCS tabs. Make a new fin. Friend made me these a few years back. This way you can adjust the fin for the feel your after. the bigger fin moved forward with mover canard overlap is loose and twin fin feeling. Loose some hold and squirt on back hand. The smaller fin pushed back has way more hold and drive off bottom. This is all with the same canard and placement of canard. Would love to hit up a point break for a few weeks with one board and quiver of fins. Just put some smaller canards about 1/8 less base/ trailing edge in same board to test this week with some crappy wind swell. Will report back. Click to expand... Thanks, got it. Make a new fin. That's an FCS advantage, right, the cant is built into the box not the fin? I modify existing fins from Futures. They once sent me a box full and I can also score their white plastic (thermaset?) side bites for under $30 a pair to experiment with. |
| 220532 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 70 | Bruce Fowler | Sep 19, 2021 | 2021-09-19T10:58:15-0400 | I've thought about doing a V Machine Twinzer version. It's a very natural evolution to offer this option. The design is well suited to any fin configuration, and adding this option would make it a very viable design that could even be ridden as a 6 or 7 fin depending upon preference. |
| 220539 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 71 | jonbiz | Sep 19, 2021 | 2021-09-19T11:15:51-0400 | @Bruce Fowler do it. I think it will be a great platform for a twinzer. I've thought about adding boxes to mine. Can't wait to see one. |
| 220551 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 72 | DJR | Sep 19, 2021 | 2021-09-19T12:22:22-0400 | Bruce Fowler said: I've thought about doing a V Machine Twinzer version. It's a very natural evolution to offer this option. The design is well suited to any fin configuration, and adding this option would make it a very viable design that could even be ridden as a 6 or 7 fin depending upon preference. Click to expand... One of the reasons I love these threads is the creations that come forth |
| 220564 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 73 | XXX | Sep 19, 2021 | 2021-09-19T13:45:00-0400 | Bruce Fowler said: I've thought about doing a V Machine Twinzer version. It's a very natural evolution to offer this option. The design is well suited to any fin configuration, and adding this option would make it a very viable design... Click to expand... I realize your V Machine has evolved away from those early long and deep panel Vees with belly forward. But do they show any of the tendency to track those plastic machines were known for? I remember getting stuck on one panel or the other many times. I wonder if a twinzer fin set-up would help reduce any tendency to track? On a similar note, If the canard serves primarily to improve the function of the main fin, is that comparable to running a larger/deeper main fin? Those original plastic machines Vee bottoms had the deepest single fins I ever saw. |
| 220680 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 74 | WillieP | Sep 20, 2021 | 2021-09-20T10:58:05-0400 | Brigham03 said: At long last here is the board I have questions about! I impulse bought the twinzer fins I posted from Happy Battle last night. Should've waited for everyone's input here but got super excited to see them available. Still very curious to hear what people think of the overlap of the canards with this setup and the bottom contour, cant, size, placement of fins etc. Looks more like this is a v to double concave out the tail? Is there a name for that shape, I've seen it on another board recently - a twin pin w channels a buddy just bought. View attachment 34514 View attachment 34516 View attachment 34517 View attachment 34518 View attachment 34519 Click to expand... I think the v to the double concave is what is called "spiral v" although I'm not sure. |
| 220771 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 75 | Bigyummm | Sep 21, 2021 | 2021-09-21T07:07:05-0400 | jonbiz said: @Bruce Fowler do it. I think it will be a great platform for a twinzer. I've thought about adding boxes to mine. Can't wait to see one. Click to expand... Agreed, definitely would like to see that combo! |
| 220772 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 76 | Bigyummm | Sep 21, 2021 | 2021-09-21T07:07:40-0400 | WillieP said: I think the v to the double concave is what is called "spiral v" although I'm not sure. Click to expand... I thought so too. thanks for confirming |
| 220849 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 77 | NCJohn | Sep 21, 2021 | 2021-09-21T18:57:39-0400 | WillieP said: I think the v to the double concave is what is called "spiral v" although I'm not sure. Click to expand... Ive been told spiral v is a v with double concave set in it to add a little lift and smooth out the transition from rail to rail in turns |
| 220851 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 78 | Chrispy | Sep 21, 2021 | 2021-09-21T19:25:23-0400 | Just read through this whole thread-been planning on shaping myself a 6’4 round pin twinzer similar to a honey badger for a bit. Have a good idea on fin placement but trying to track down the right set of fins to glass on. Anyone have a good idea of who makes some Larry-mabile style wood glass on twinzer fins? |
| 220857 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 79 | jonbiz | Sep 22, 2021 | 2021-09-21T20:42:29-0400 | Chrispy said: Just read through this whole thread-been planning on shaping myself a 6'4 round pin twinzer similar to a honey badger for a bit. Have a good idea on fin placement but trying to track down the right set of fins to glass on. Anyone have a good idea of who makes some Larry-mabile style wood glass on twinzer fins? Click to expand... |
| 220861 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 80 | JMJackFish | Sep 22, 2021 | 2021-09-21T21:04:14-0400 | I have bought a few sets of twinzers from Undertoe - great fins |
| 220865 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 81 | jonbiz | Sep 22, 2021 | 2021-09-21T21:50:23-0400 | It’s the foil on the undertoe that’s money. |
| 220933 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 82 | jonbiz | Sep 22, 2021 | 2021-09-22T11:54:50-0400 | Got out today in some less than ideal conditions. Still super fun. Ran this set up and as of today it’s the best so far. Put in a smaller canard and that loosened up the board. Fins Unlimited canard and custom G10 main. |
| 221216 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 83 | pintail | Sep 24, 2021 | 2021-09-24T13:31:26-0400 | jonbiz said: Got the Jobson cleaned up and ready for next swell. @pintail thank you for your time and holding this for me. Three years of searching. @JMJackFish for stopping by work and telling me about it. Click to expand... No problem, glad it arrived intact. Only problem for me was looking and lusting after that beautiful board. Let us know how it rides. |
| 221263 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 84 | jonbiz | Sep 24, 2021 | 2021-09-24T19:10:20-0400 | pintail said: No problem, glad it arrived intact. Only problem for me was looking and lusting after that beautiful board. Let us know how it rides. Click to expand... Will do. You should have taken it out for a spin. Thank you again. Will definitely give a ride report |
| 222182 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 85 | bfat | Oct 3, 2021 | 2021-10-03T13:54:26-0400 | Dropping this here. Interesting board. Not sure about those nose and tail measurements. Bet it's a fun ride. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/spo/d/santa-rosa-surfboard-custom/7387841344.html |
| 222191 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 86 | jonbiz | Oct 3, 2021 | 2021-10-03T15:05:10-0400 | @hankster get it |
| 222192 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 87 | jonbiz | Oct 3, 2021 | 2021-10-03T15:22:47-0400 | bfat said: Dropping this here. Interesting board. Not sure about those nose and tail measurements. Bet it's a fun ride. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/spo/d/santa-rosa-surfboard-custom/7387841344.html Click to expand... That's a nice one and clean. I bet the dims are all wrong except t Length |
| 222208 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 88 | hankster | Oct 4, 2021 | 2021-10-03T20:25:01-0400 | I sent the seller an email. Hope he replies. As long as the thickness he stated in incorrect, I'm game. |
| 222214 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 89 | DJR | Oct 4, 2021 | 2021-10-03T21:24:50-0400 | hankster said: I sent the seller an email. Hope he replies. As long as the thickness he stated in incorrect, I'm game. Click to expand... Man… |
| 222227 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 90 | bobsacamano | Oct 4, 2021 | 2021-10-03T22:36:51-0400 | I almost messaged the guy... |
| 222368 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 91 | WillieP | Oct 5, 2021 | 2021-10-05T11:49:50-0400 | One way to figure out if a twinzer fin system works is to cut some holes in a perfect good surfboard. See my post under the thread: Mitsven Magic/Larmo Honey Badger. I think it can be done, but I don’t have the technical expertise to move that post over here. |
| 222425 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 92 | jonbiz | Oct 5, 2021 | 2021-10-05T19:54:46-0400 | WillieP said: One way to figure out if a twinzer fin system works is to cut some holes in a perfect good surfboard. See my post under the thread: Mitsven Magic/Larmo Honey Badger. I think it can be done, but I don't have the technical expertise to move that post over here. Click to expand... No. Same as you can't make a twin fin a twinzer. There's more to just slapping on some canards. Unfortunately this is the main issue with twinzers, lots of shapers don't do them correctly. I've committed to the twinzer design and will go deeper into it. Just ordered some shaping stuff. I've also had a lot of help from a few guys who are the reason some big name shapers are even making them. "Saved you five years of trial and error " I've even DM Rusty to ask about the formula Jobson used. Learned this from a friend. Sucks because Wil's ideas and knowledge are going to die with him. |
| 222431 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 93 | WillieP | Oct 6, 2021 | 2021-10-05T20:37:34-0400 | Actually, the post points out that the board Is a 2+1. As the post explains, the position of the side bite slots were positioned very similar to the position used by Larry Mabile on the Honey Badger. What I did not say in the post is that relative position of the rear fin slots to the canard slots were very different on the Mabile as compared to a Mitsven twinzer. Bob Mitsven consulted with Stun Kenson on the placement of the boxes since Bob doesn’t do many twinzers and he and Stu are located in the same area. So there are definitely more than one school of thought out there. |
| 222436 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 94 | jonbiz | Oct 6, 2021 | 2021-10-05T21:01:19-0400 | WillieP said: Actually, the post points out that the board Is a 2+1. As the post explains, the position of the side bite slots were positioned very similar to the position used by Larry Mabile on the Honey Badger. What I did not say in the post is that relative position of the rear fin slots to the canard slots were very different on the Mabile as compared to a Mitsven twinzer. Bob Mitsven consulted with Stun Kenson on the placement of the boxes since Bob doesn't do many twinzers and he and Stu are located in the same area. So there are definitely more than one school of thought out there. Click to expand... Got it. Missed the post on second page. Definitely be interesting. Are you a back footed surfer or front? How for off the rail and what did you decidefor how much overlap? Curious. Larmo uses a little different placement than Wil |
| 222438 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 95 | WillieP | Oct 6, 2021 | 2021-10-05T21:12:19-0400 | WillieP said: Actually, the post points out that the board Is a 2+1. As the post explains, the position of the side bite slots were positioned very similar to the position used by Larry Mabile on the Honey Badger. What I did not say in the post is that relative position of the rear fin slots to the canard slots were very different on the Mabile as compared to a Mitsven twinzer. Bob Mitsven consulted with Stun Kenson on the placement of the boxes since Bob doesn't do many twinzers and he and Stu are located in the same area. So there are definitely more than one school of thought out there. Click to expand... My leading sentence was meant to be facetious so it was misleading. The real reason this experiment happened is that SC Surf wanted a Honey Badger with a twinzer/single fin set up. When I would not sell him mine, he took matters in his own hands. He decided to take a Mitsven Magic, a board very similar to a Honey Badger both in terms of outline, bottom contours and rocker, and add a twinzer set up based on the configuration used on the Honey Badger. The alternative was to hunt down Larry Mabile, place an order, wait 3-10, months, and pay a lot of money. If it turns out he doesn't like it as a twinzer, he can always use it as a 2+1 or with single fin. I can sure you, as the pictures in the post kind of depict, a lot thought and effort went into the placement of the the rear boxes. |
| 222439 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 96 | jonbiz | Oct 6, 2021 | 2021-10-05T21:18:10-0400 | Look forward to seeing how it goes. I’m just curious and geek out over certain designs. Twinzer has always been my favorite. |
| 222446 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 97 | WillieP | Oct 6, 2021 | 2021-10-05T22:04:35-0400 | jonbiz said: Got it. Missed the post on second page. Definitely be interesting. Are you a back footed surfer or front? How for off the rail and what did you decidefor how much overlap? Curious. Larmo uses a little different placement than Wil Click to expand... jonbiz said: Look forward to seeing how it goes. I'm just curious and geek out over certain designs. Twinzer has always been my favorite. Click to expand... This is Foster's (SC Surf) project. I would call him a back footed surfer but he may disagree with me. As far as the placement, my understanding is that he took measurements on the Mabile and used them to determine the placement relative to the rail and overlap. Foster has been geeking over twinzers over 20 years ever since he had a Kane Garden Twinzer fish shaped by Larmo. I know he would enjoy sharing ideas with you and updating you with the results. |
| 222461 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 98 | jonbiz | Oct 6, 2021 | 2021-10-06T05:33:02-0400 | This is the rabbit hole. Welcome and we can all get lost in it together. |
| 222512 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 99 | kpd73 | Oct 6, 2021 | 2021-10-06T13:47:39-0400 | Any love, thoughts, or experience here for the Panda Shiitake...? https://www.pandasurfboards.com/shiitake |
| 222674 | 11248 | Twinzer Design/Experiment. | 100 | DJR | Oct 7, 2021 | 2021-10-07T18:31:50-0400 | WillieP said: Actually, the post points out that the board Is a 2+1. As the post explains, the position of the side bite slots were positioned very similar to the position used by Larry Mabile on the Honey Badger. What I did not say in the post is that relative position of the rear fin slots to the canard slots were very different on the Mabile as compared to a Mitsven twinzer. Bob Mitsven consulted with Stun Kenson on the placement of the boxes since Bob doesn't do many twinzers and he and Stu are located in the same area. So there are definitely more than one school of thought out there. Click to expand... kpd73 said: Any love, thoughts, or experience here for the Panda Shiitake...? https://www.pandasurfboards.com/shiitake Click to expand... Was wondering the same about the Panda also I hit up Darcy in Oz and he said to get in touch with Timmy Patterson as he knows the formula too… Such an interesting culture and subculture of a subculture surfing is. One wonders what the Aussies are hiding down there in this style of board |
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