{"database": "surfing", "table": "posts", "is_view": false, "human_description_en": "where thread_id = 430", "rows": [["229514", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 190, "EcBob", "Dec 8, 2021", "2021-12-08T08:56:10-0500", "Apologies for some of the ignorant posts I made on this thread. I've been meaning to revisit this forum for some time and apologize. Unfortunately I lived in a small world here in the South, and was very naive to the stories of others who didn't look like me. Hope everyone is well, and that there hasn't been anymore threads like this."], ["229517", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 191, "KDenning", "Dec 8, 2021", "2021-12-08T10:10:32-0500", "EcBob said: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Apologies for some of the ignorant posts I made on this thread. I've been meaning to revisit this forum for some time and apologize. Unfortunately I lived in a small world here in the South, and was very naive to the stories of others who didn't look like me. Hope everyone is well, and that there hasn't been anymore threads like this.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nThis is my favorite post on Jamboards so far.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHopefully we can all look back on things we said and did 9 years ago and be proud to be a better person with more perspective today.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nGood on ya, EcBob!"], ["229519", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 192, "Ricksurfin", "Dec 8, 2021", "2021-12-08T10:23:35-0500", "9 year\u2019s ago? He\u2019ll I\u2019m lucky to remember what I did yesterday."], ["229524", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 193, "nedsurf", "Dec 8, 2021", "2021-12-08T11:10:35-0500", "tentoesed said: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\naustin s\n wrote: \n\n\n\nAha! Now I'm beginning to see the WHOLE picture! (point of interest is that \"day spa\" sign just above the nose of the top board with mexicanblanket stripes)\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYeah, right , \"Day Spa\"? whacha' runnin' there, Austin, a whore house?\n\n\n\nYou messed up Sutheneh's!! Lowdy, Lowdy!\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSeriously, your work is amazing, maybe not for all but superbly executed!\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nHad to go back to try to figure out what this was all about and found this post from Ed, glad to be reminded about him. RIP Tentoesed"], ["36015", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 1, "austin s", "Feb 11, 2012", "2012-02-11T06:15:30-0500", "Hey all,\n\n\n\nI have been working on some new boards that I thought I would share with you.\n\n\n\nAustin"], ["36016", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 2, "EcBob", "Feb 11, 2012", "2012-02-11T06:37:47-0500", "I was tempted when I picked up my Soul Glide last week to also take the Confederate board as well.... Love that board, but I guess that's the southern in me"], ["36020", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 3, "DownSouthSlidah", "Feb 11, 2012", "2012-02-11T12:34:58-0500", "Me likey. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWhat models and dims are the top two?"], ["36021", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 4, "houseofsuffering", "Feb 11, 2012", "2012-02-11T13:23:08-0500", "Beautiful work, but I'm just gonna put it out there: tough for me to get behind the rebel flag board.  I know all the different \"interpretations\" of it but I can think of better ways to show your pride."], ["36022", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 5, "Guest", "Feb 11, 2012", "2012-02-11T17:42:04-0500", "Agreed on the rebel flag."], ["36024", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 6, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-11T19:08:43-0500", "Ditto. Gnarley sentiment. Surfing ain't about such shit, to me anyway."], ["36025", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 7, "ourownnation", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-11T19:24:33-0500", "I didn't want to be the first to say it, and it's probably a great board, but it just turns me off..."], ["36033", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 8, "pintail", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T01:53:05-0500", "The Rebel board must be pictured in the right setting:  sticking out of the back of a pickup that has a Mossberg 500 on its gun rack and a sticker that says (and I've seen this) \"I eat grits -Girls Raised In The South\"."], ["36034", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 9, "pilau", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T02:07:28-0500", "Yeah. I think that's the mental image that the board conjures for most of the negative comments here. At least something similar to that. Some white racist bigot bubba.  I am 100% Southern. No member of my family, mom or dads side, ever lived north of Tennessee.  Im the only one who left the south since my ancestors arrived from Ireland and Czechoslovakia. There is no way in hell I'd own that rebel flag board."], ["36035", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 10, "Guest", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T02:38:12-0500", "Going through Paramedic school I had an instructor who was this huge black dood named Bubba.  He wore a Rebel Flag hat all the time.  After that I figured to each is their own.  This was in Central Oregon where even the coffee is white."], ["36036", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 11, "FirstPointEric", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T03:21:59-0500", "Austin: Great looking boards and fins....the fins look insane.  The resin-stripe board is gorgeous, as is the noseblock on that triple stringer.  Honestly, I'm not real psyched on the stars and bars--conjures too many bad things for me--but then again, I'm a Cali boy with no Southern history in my family.  Had a g/f for a long time from Louisiana and she wouldn't be caught dead with Confederate anything.  But she was a rare bird...a liberal from the South.  And to think I still love Lynyrd Skynyrd!  Not the retread version now posing as LS, but the original band. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI always look forward to seeing more of your boards, Austin.  Post 'em up when you've got 'em.  And I'm offa my soapbox.  \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEric"], ["36037", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 12, "Kaholo", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T04:10:26-0500", "Really nice boards Austin.  All of them."], ["36038", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 13, "rapier_96", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T04:29:29-0500", "Great work\n\n\n\nmy firsr thought when i saw the board was daisy duke, i guess those were impressible years of my adolescent youth."], ["36039", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 14, "EcBob", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T05:17:39-0500", "I can see the Rebel flag board fitting a niche here locally, but I think it's just a fun board that celebrates an area. I understand it carries a ton of negatives, but I think we need to separate the owner of something like this board from the actual board. Same goes with the flag itself. Sure it can be owned by a backwoods racist *******, but it can just as easily be owned by someone who has grown up in the South or even a Dukes of Hazard fan. We get too touchy feely about so much nowadays. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWith that said I am amazed that it hasn't gotten local news coverage on display in front of the store\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOh and for any one wondering the dims on it are 10' 24\" Soul Glide I think"], ["36041", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 15, "Finward", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T05:43:23-0500", "I thought Dukes of hazard when I saw it. My girl would love it ( huge fan of the old TV show ) too bad its big enough for her to use it as a SUP, It would work rather nicely for me though. Sweet lookin' boards! \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAlso make me think of Cletus from the Simpsons."], ["36042", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 16, "EcBob", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T05:57:56-0500", "Actually after seeing it I did start thinking about a General Lee inspired board"], ["36043", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 17, "log donkey", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T06:33:08-0500", "christ.  it's just a pattern, a design.  what it represents is up to you.  no one would be complaining if the stars and stripes were on a board,.. yet, what has the stars and stripes flag represented to so many in ways of hostility?  what about the union jack?  this is just a buncha white boys trying to stand up for some white guilt - get over it.  it's all part of history, deal with it as you may, but deal with it and realize it's history.  for the record i have no ties to the \"south\" or the \"north\".  my poor old grandparents barely got here illegally  in the early 20th century and i'm lucky they did.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nnice boards austin."], ["36044", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 18, "kumachan", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T07:11:12-0500", "Hmm, another discussion not really surf related, but I'm gonna chime in. It's a hard call: Does one \"move on\" and \"get over it\" as Log Donkey suggests and ignore a significant part of our history, or rather ignore all the baggage that accompanies that time?   Would it be OK to put a right-facing, black swastika with a white & red background on a board because, for the shaper, it's a Hindu sign for good fortune and not a symbol of death and destruction?  For some, the \"Stars & Bars\" are just as offensive as a swastika."], ["36045", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 19, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T07:21:01-0500", "Disingenuous. \"Get over it\" is for lazy thinkers."], ["36046", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 20, "SuperKool", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T07:48:00-0500", "SMUKES\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Surfing ain't about such s&*t, to me anyway.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nAgreed.  Guys used to paint swastikas on their boards just to piss people off or whatever, right?  I'm all for punk antics but I doubt that's what this board is about.  Whatever the wide swath of the \"surf culture\" encompasses these days I would think the line should be drawn somewhere before that.  I expect to see plenty of bumper stickers and whatnot in that neck of the woods but not on surfboards.  Different ideas down there, not for me, I hope the guy gets put in his place more than once for riding it but not sure if I blame Austin for giving the guy what he wanted???  (Edit, I am reminded of the board Austin made with the concave in the middle of the board, I guess he's down with whatever the customer wants.)"], ["36047", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 21, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T07:55:18-0500", "Get in and out of the water without anyone ever knowing you were there, that's making a statement."], ["36048", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 22, "EcBob", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T07:58:22-0500", "Dunno \"get over it\" also removes negative connotation quicker I think than holding these memories on altars like we do. I can understand being offended by something if it directly affected you or a love one that you actually knew. It's odd too that we hold onto the white racist references like we do and seem to overlook more recent indiscretions. Why aren't we still up in arms about internment camps we put Japanese Americans in? Or what we did to many Native Americans? Or the lack of civil rights given to blacks for years after slavery? Lots of terrible things have happened throughout history but for some reason we still bash a flag that we think only stood for the promotion of slavery. We should burn the current American flag too I guess because some awful things have happened while it flew overhead as well."], ["36049", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 23, "nedsurf", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:02:29-0500", "SuperKool\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I hope the guy gets put in his place more than once for riding it\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nWTF? Hardly \"Superkool\" imho."], ["36050", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 24, "SuperKool", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:04:49-0500", "I would be somewhat concerned about someone who ordered a US flag board as well.  There are other ways to show pride for whatever you believe in.  Leave that crap on the shore.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI would be proud to drop in on him, Ned."], ["36051", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 25, "log donkey", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:07:53-0500", "SMUKES\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Get in and out of the water without anyone ever knowing you were there, that's making a statement.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nSuperkool"], ["36052", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 26, "ourownnation", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:08:21-0500", "\"what it represents is up to you\" and \"get over it\", contradictions in themselves, people will never see eye to eye on it.  \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI was going to give a history lesson of the relevance, but I will save that."], ["36053", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 27, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:14:05-0500", "Uncomfortable, overly confessional internet statement in 3 ... 2 ... I grew up in a racist household. I have uncles in the klan and both of my parents were southern racists.  They would've said get over it... Pains me to even think about it.  In and outta the water under the radar. Yep."], ["36054", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 28, "houseofsuffering", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:22:19-0500", "EcBob\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Dunno \"get over it\" also removes negative connotation quicker I think than holding these memories on altars like we do. I can understand being offended by something if it directly affected you or a love one that you actually knew. It's odd too that we hold onto the white racist references like we do and seem to overlook more recent indiscretions. Why aren't we still up in arms about internment camps we put Japanese Americans in? Or what we did to many Native Americans? Or the lack of civil rights given to blacks for years after slavery? Lots of terrible things have happened throughout history but for some reason we still bash a flag that we think only stood for the promotion of slavery. We should burn the current American flag too I guess because some awful things have happened while it flew overhead as well.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nPardon my white guilt, but all the historical events you bring up are valid and part of the discussion of our identity as a nation and people.  To simply say \"get over it\"would mean to me that we have reached a point of equality for all in the United States, which simply isn't the case.  It's important to discuss these events of the past for the sake of progressing and treating people with respect in the present.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI'm white.  I live in the northeast.  I know what I believe.  I also know that people can believe different things and I'm ok with that.  I weighed in on my view of the board, knowing that there would be people that would disagree and I'm sure Austin knew the same thing when the board was made."], ["36055", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 29, "SuperKool", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:23:54-0500", "I grew up in AR and went to people's houses with pictures of JW Booth hanging over their bars and far worse.  F that S and they can shove whatever other parts of their culture other than racism they're so ra ra about reviving up their hoo hoos as well.  They're the ones who need to get over it and if it takes someone telling them that to their face (or dropping in on them) then so be it, I'm game and always will be."], ["36056", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 30, "slosurf", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:32:19-0500", "Good art is not what it looks like, but how it performs on a clean waist-high peeler....or is that good craftsmanship. Yeah, good art provokes and agitates. Looks like you nailed it on both counts Austin.  \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLooks like something LondonCalling would have ordered up.  As a Russian, Romanian, Irish, Australian Jew from the north, I miss my debates with him.  Noel, give me call.  We have another election to argue over."], ["36057", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 31, "log donkey", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:43:15-0500", "I guess my \" problem\" is I grew up in Oakland. People there in general regardless of color or any other difference you can think of treat you as a person. Sure there's pockets of hate everywhere but I didn't learn that and part of the reason is because of the diversity I lived thru from day one. \n\n\n\nFlags are flags. Designs. Just like some stupid resin swirl. So yeah, get over it. Put three extra stars on it is it still the same?  Add a stripe to old faithful while yer at it."], ["36058", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 32, "EcBob", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T08:44:31-0500", "I heard a great interview with a black author one morning last year during Black History Month and I wish I could find it, but he was saying (and he may be wrongly speaking for all blacks here) that the reason the \"N\" word had become so prevalent over the years amongst them culturally was to remove the sting. He went into a long diatribe, but it boiled down to the fact that they were able to let go of it by using it.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI can understand this board being a regional thing. I have lived in VA all my life and mainly in a rural area of Va Beach called Pungo. Growing up here and spending a lot of time in NC I have become so accustomed to seeing the Rebel Flag that I associate with region more than anything historical. I know black guys who have flown them at their houses or worn them on T Shirts. Its just part of the area, but like I said above in an earlier poatI am surprised that there hasn't been someone upset by it locally. Va Beach is highly transient and not all are so accustomed  to seeing it."], ["36059", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 33, "ourownnation", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T09:17:10-0500", "Flags have mean, the colors, the balance, the lines, all represent meaning. You've never broken down the structure of certain flags?  Via ESPN C'MON MAN, that post was so weak, as was a parallel to resin swirls, epic fail of an argument at least come correct with something legitimate."], ["36060", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 34, "Guest", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T09:28:43-0500", "Wow. It looks like your brand is right there, front and center on all of those boards.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nPretty much smack dab in the middle, from my point of view.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEdit:  I forgot to add a link. Ry Cooder gets it."], ["36061", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 35, "log donkey", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T09:37:23-0500", "Espn? Sorry. That means nothing to me. Not a thing."], ["36062", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 36, "ourownnation", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T09:43:46-0500", "log donkey\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Espn? Sorry. That means nothing to me. Not a thing.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nIt's obvious that a lot of things mean nothing to you, ignorance is bliss?"], ["36063", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 37, "h2oman", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T09:48:23-0500", "peacefulpete\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Wow. It looks like your brand is right there, front and center on all of those boards.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nPretty much smack dab in the middle, from my point of view.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEdit:  I forgot to add a link. Ry Cooder gets it.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tYeah it's called branding or marketing. Guy wants to make a living doing something he loves. His boards ride good as well as look good. Add to the fact that he's a really solid guy.  The board is not my cup of tea but I won't spend a second getting worked up about it. I guess here on the east coast or atleast from my area down south you get used to seeing the flag around."], ["36064", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 38, "Finward", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T09:55:20-0500", "log donkey\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSMUKES\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Get in and out of the water without anyone ever knowing you were there, that's making a statement.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nSuperkool\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n Slip amongst the waves like some invisible thing"], ["36065", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 39, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T10:21:01-0500", "zactly...  All those swirls and pinlines and colors... \"LOOKIT MEEEE!\" I love a solid cokebottle tint ... I do those now cause I hate it when my clear boards turn yellow. Funny topic. Pete's point may have been missed, I figure the dude knew this would get us talking, which is fine, no way I'd \"Brand\" myself with a douche flag. nope."], ["36066", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 40, "Chilly Willy", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T10:35:06-0500", "SuperKool\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I would be somewhat concerned about someone who ordered a US flag board as well. There are other ways to show pride for whatever you believe in. Leave that crap on the shore.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tUh oh.  Then don't look at this board I bought a few months back.  I got it used, cheap, and thoroughly dinged.  I'm hoping to use it to learn how to fix dings properly, and then maybe ride it during 4th of July weekend.  Maybe while I'm at it, I'll start a \"U - S - A!!!\" chant out in the lineup.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAttached files \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nImage processing. Refresh page to view"], ["36067", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 41, "h2oman", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T10:38:35-0500", "Chilly Willy\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSuperKool\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I would be somewhat concerned about someone who ordered a US flag board as well. There are other ways to show pride for whatever you believe in. Leave that crap on the shore.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tUh oh.  Then don't look at this board I bought a few months back.  I got it used, cheap, and thoroughly dinged.  I'm hoping to use it to learn how to fix dings properly, and then maybe ride it during 4th of July weekend.  Maybe while I'm at it, I'll start a \"U - S - A!!!\" chant out in the lineup.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tOh jeez you will offend the muslims and all the US hating liberals out there!!!!! Better paint over it"], ["36068", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 42, "aloof", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T10:44:41-0500", "This reminds me of the low spark of high heeled boys, timeless tune, it's not worth it for any kind of money."], ["36069", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 43, "Kaholo", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T10:47:27-0500", "This thread is painfully out of control"], ["36070", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 44, "poidog", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T10:50:22-0500", "My mom was in one of the \"relocation\" camps for Japanese Americans mentioned earlier. She and her family were living in SoCal before the war, lost everything, were sent to a camp in Jerome, Arkansas. Settled in MD after the war. When I was about ten we went on a vacation to North Carolina (vacations were rare events). I remember my mom singing in the car, happy. Then we came upon a barn with the entire side painted in a confederate flag. My mom went completely silent. That's what comes to mind whenever I see that flag -- my mom's silence."], ["36071", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 45, "EcBob", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T10:59:18-0500", "poidog\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            My mom was in one of the \"relocation\" camps for Japanese Americans mentioned earlier. She and her family were living in SoCal before the war, lost everything, were sent to a camp in Jerome, Arkansas. Settled in MD after the war. When I was about ten we went on a vacation to North Carolina (vacations were rare events). I remember my mom singing in the car, happy. Then we came upon a barn with the entire side painted in a confederate flag. My mom went completely silent. That's what comes to mind whenever I see that flag -- my mom's silence.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n Interesting that your mom associated that flag with that event. Sorry about your mom's silence but here's an example of how ordinary the symbol is to many of us here locally. It is available on personalized license plates through the state. \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nImage processing. Refresh page to view\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAgain I think regionally for locals it has a fully different  connotation, And I guess if it was Austin's intent he is working the  publicity angle, and can't fault the guy for getting his name out there."], ["36072", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 46, "aloof", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T11:07:30-0500", "We are raised up to not think rinkydink but then you go out in the world and guess what?"], ["36073", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 47, "rapier_96", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T11:27:22-0500", "Image processing. Refresh page to view"], ["36074", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 48, "Guest", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T11:32:43-0500", "\"It is available on personalized license plates through the state. \"\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEmpathy, however, is on back-order throughout the Commonwealth."], ["36075", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 49, "slosurf", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T11:42:42-0500", "Chilly Willy\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSuperKool\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I would be somewhat concerned about someone who ordered a US flag board as well. There are other ways to show pride for whatever you believe in. Leave that crap on the shore.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tUh oh.\u00c2  Then don't look at this board I bought a few months back.\u00c2  I got it used, cheap,\u00c2 and thoroughly dinged.\u00c2  I'm hoping to use it to learn how to fix dings properly, and then maybe ride it during 4th of July weekend.\u00c2  Maybe while I'm at it, I'll start a \"U - S - A!!!\" chant out in the lineup.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nYou will be fine as long as you don't ride it in the Gaza Strip."], ["36076", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 50, "slosurf", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T11:45:29-0500", "rapier_96\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nImage processing. Refresh page to view\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nJust to the right of this picture are three pick-up trucks, fishing poles lined up, coolers full of beer, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and a bunch of pot-bellied ******** in t-shirts with confederate flags with the sleeves cut off."], ["36077", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 51, "poidog", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T11:55:22-0500", "I see us as a gigantic, dysfunctional family sitting around the world's biggest dinner table. Debates are taking place regarding one fin versus two (or three or four or five), 50/50 versus 60/40, convex versus concave, square tail or pin; some are sitting quietly, just watching; others used to talk a lot but haven't been to the table in awhile; newcomers pipe in with a word or two (a few listen, then look away); boards are swapped and sold; Shapewright and Boarddesign are told to go wash their hands because they have resin all over them; Roy is told to put away his wooden throne, Peakmaster looks guilty because he just took his third 45-minute shower of the day, and Austin walks in the kitchen door with a board covered with a confederate flag and says, \"Look what I made!\""], ["36078", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 52, "slosurf", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T11:59:08-0500", "poidog\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I see us as a gigantic, dysfunctional family sitting around the world's biggest dinner table. Debates are taking place regarding one fin versus two (or three or four or five), 50/50 versus 60/40, convex versus concave, square tail or pin; some are sitting quietly, just watching; others used to talk a lot but haven't been to the table in awhile; newcomers pipe in with a word or two (a few listen, then look away); boards are swapped and sold; Shapewright and Boarddesign are told to go wash their hands because they have resin all over them; Roy is told to put away his wooden throne, Peakmaster looks guilty because he just took his third 45-minute shower of the day, and Austin walks in the kitchen door with a board covered with a confederate flag and says, \"Look what I made!\"\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nClassic.  Well said, Poidog.  I love the imagery."], ["36079", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 53, "EcBob", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T11:59:10-0500", "peacefulpete\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            \"It is available on personalized license plates through the state. \"\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEmpathy, however, is on back-order throughout the Commonwealth.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nWhat do you expect from a bunch of ******* cross burners"], ["36080", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 54, "EcBob", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T12:01:10-0500", "slosurf\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\npoidog\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I see us as a gigantic, dysfunctional family sitting around the world's biggest dinner table. Debates are taking place regarding one fin versus two (or three or four or five), 50/50 versus 60/40, convex versus concave, square tail or pin; some are sitting quietly, just watching; others used to talk a lot but haven't been to the table in awhile; newcomers pipe in with a word or two (a few listen, then look away); boards are swapped and sold; Shapewright and Boarddesign are told to go wash their hands because they have resin all over them; Roy is told to put away his wooden throne, Peakmaster looks guilty because he just took his third 45-minute shower of the day, and Austin walks in the kitchen door with a board covered with a confederate flag and says, \"Look what I made!\"\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nClassic.  Well said, Poidog.  I love the imagery.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n+1"], ["36081", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 55, "Finward", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T12:06:52-0500", "its a surfboard still right?"], ["36082", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 56, "Finward", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T12:08:52-0500", "poidog\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I see us as a gigantic, dysfunctional family sitting around the world's biggest dinner table. Debates are taking place regarding one fin versus two (or three or four or five), 50/50 versus 60/40, convex versus concave, square tail or pin; some are sitting quietly, just watching; others used to talk a lot but haven't been to the table in awhile; newcomers pipe in with a word or two (a few listen, then look away); boards are swapped and sold; Shapewright and Boarddesign are told to go wash their hands because they have resin all over them; Roy is told to put away his wooden throne, Peakmaster looks guilty because he just took his third 45-minute shower of the day, and Austin walks in the kitchen door with a board covered with a confederate flag and says, \"Look what I made!\"\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nWell if thats the case I'm stealing someones smoke and headed out to the garage, anyone else down?"], ["36083", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 57, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T12:19:40-0500", "Wahhoo. I'm in"], ["36084", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 58, "log donkey", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T12:31:38-0500", "Jesus h christ\n\n\n\nOr can I say that? \n\n\n\nHoooooooo haaaaaaa!!!"], ["36085", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 59, "aloof", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T12:38:47-0500", "I broke out the sipping whiskey for this."], ["36086", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 60, "austin s", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T12:41:10-0500", "Wow, I didn't expect to see this.  This post was not meant to offend anyone.  \n\n\n\nAustin"], ["36087", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 61, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T13:05:31-0500", "We won this war once! By gum well win it again!"], ["36088", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 62, "RATZAX", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T13:48:37-0500", "Our society has progressed way past the Rebel Flag mentality.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAs open minded and libral as I am I find that message immature and crude."], ["36089", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 63, "PeakMaster", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T14:00:45-0500", "austin s\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Wow, I didn't expect to see this. This post was not meant to offend anyone. \n\n\n\nAustin\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nI'm not offended.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI am trying to cut it down to two showers a day. The clomipramine may be working."], ["36091", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 64, "Kaholo", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T15:53:11-0500", "austin s\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Wow, I didn't expect to see this.  This post was not meant to offend anyone.  \n\n\n\nAustin\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tAustin,  one of these nuts compared the Union Jack to a Swastika.  One guy said he doesn't like or respect the American Flag.  These are uber-sensitive lovers of all mankind that hate all proud southerners, Col. Lee, Daisy Dukes, and Boss Hog. That's a lot of hate.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nTake it for what it's worth.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYour boards look great as always, thanks for posting them.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAttached files \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nImage processing. Refresh page to view"], ["36093", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 65, "unfrozencaveman", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T17:11:58-0500", "thanks to everybody for this\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nits been a longtime since we had a good steamer"], ["36094", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 66, "SdSurferguy", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T17:16:25-0500", "so glad i clicked on this thread\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAttached files \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nImage processing. Refresh page to view"], ["36095", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 67, "unfrozencaveman", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T17:18:49-0500", "!"], ["36096", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 68, "SdSurferguy", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T17:23:27-0500", "F*ck yeah! Ry Cooder.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI tried to find \"I Think It's Going To Work Out Fine\" on the interweb, but couldn't. :?\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\npeacefulpete\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Ry Cooder gets it.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nClick to expand..."], ["36097", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 69, "SuperKool", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T17:35:23-0500", "Kaholo\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\naustin s\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Wow, I didn't expect to see this.  This post was not meant to offend anyone.  \n\n\n\nAustin\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tAustin,  one of these nuts compared the Union Jack to a Swastika.  One guy said he doesn't like or respect the American Flag.  These are uber-sensitive lovers of all mankind that hate all proud southerners, Col. Lee, Daisy Dukes, and Boss Hog. That's a lot of hate.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nI said that a few surfers used to put swastikas on their boards and dress like nazis (even though they weren't) just to get a rise out of people but I doubted that that was what the sentiment of the board was about...more likely a true believer in southern pride.  Someone else stated that the American flag could be viewed as a symbol of oppression to many as well, a valid statement that didn't display any disrespect to your precious nationalism.  If you're going to call people stupid at least don't misrepresent them.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAs a matter of personal style I would not put either flag on a board and I would snicker at anyone who did.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nWhat are southerners so proud of anyway?  The south SUCKS in pretty much every respect imho (but it's better than Nebraska I suppose).  I would think that at least the surfers there would be cool and some are but all in all their Ron Jon F350 dixie flag surf culture misses the mark."], ["36098", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 70, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T17:39:04-0500", "Oh my. Can I just say I Fuckin looove you guys."], ["36099", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 71, "unfrozencaveman", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T17:49:34-0500", "de south... mmm... has dem gators man... an de gumbo... mmmmustard"], ["36100", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 72, "SMUKES", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T17:54:34-0500", "I've said before on here and ill say it again...\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSmokey and the Fuckin bandit!"], ["36101", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 73, "SuperKool", "Feb 12, 2012", "2012-02-12T18:04:52-0500", "meth, moonshine, k9's and baby jesus...and then, at the edge of it all...all that is Miami. :?"], ["36102", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 74, "Finward", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-12T19:32:05-0500", "peace from Bandit\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAttached files \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nImage processing. Refresh page to view"], ["36103", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 75, "aloof", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-12T21:38:16-0500", "All sounds good in theory but see if peoples in this country are willing to give up their unnatural rights if you want to call it a right, war is unnatural for that matter, flags are good for ships. I for one am sick of all the hysterics."], ["36104", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 76, "unfrozencaveman", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-12T23:19:26-0500", "...and we're done\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nthats a wrap"], ["36105", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 77, "unfrozencaveman", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-12T23:29:38-0500", "i just mean that's typically how it seems to\n\n\n\nGo anyway"], ["36106", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 78, "Smokey", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-12T23:49:19-0500", "SMUKES\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I've said before on here and ill say it again...\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSmokey and the f#%kin bandit!\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tDon't drag me into this one!\n\n\n\nI don't give a faqk either way."], ["36107", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 79, "Finward", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T00:15:39-0500", "She insulted my town! She insulted my son! [Junior starts to say something] Shaddup! She insulted my authority! And that's nothin' but plain and simple old-fashioned communism. Happens every time one of those dancers starts poon-tangin' around with those show-folk ****! I can see her now... runnin' back up that aisle. No, she was dancin' back up the aisle. Her knockers bouncin' all over the joint. Her ass was wigglin' too!"], ["36108", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 80, "Roach", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T01:21:22-0500", "http://www.eventsounds.com/wav/enema.wav"], ["36109", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 81, "slosurf", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T02:40:39-0500", "Fabulous thread.  Bravo!"], ["36110", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 82, "EcBob", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T02:59:22-0500", "What are southerners so proud of anyway?  The south SUCKS in pretty much every respect imho (but it's better than Nebraska I suppose).  I would think that at least the surfers there would be cool and some are but all in all their Ron Jon F350 dixie flag surf culture misses the mark.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tYou are definitely entitled to your opinion, but I think lumping Austin in with the Ron Jon crowd may be a smidge out of context. We do have a Ron Jon culture that is reflected in some  stores here locally however that culture exists everywhere North, South, East, and West to varying degrees, but I don't see Austin in that crowd at all. And most of us dumb non bathing ******** can't afford one of them sweet F350's we gotta settle for lifted F150's with a real nice gun rack to hold our 12 gauge steady when we go rootin"], ["36111", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 83, "SuperKool", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T03:08:32-0500", "fair enough, I know some cool people in FL and didn't mean to lump Austin in with the crowd.  Of course there are good folks everywhere, still no response to the overall question of what the flag does represent that they're so proud of but I'm over my pointless instigating...for now."], ["36112", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 84, "DownSouthSlidah", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T03:38:17-0500", "Best answer I could find with a short search is below.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nFrankly I am a transplant to the South from a British colony where whites are the minority and native whites are not welcome in some restaurants, are blocked (not by law but by government intervention) from selling property to other whites without first consideration going to government officials (no, not white), and deal with open hatred on the streets (on the flip side, white tourists are made to feel welcome because without them the average person would not make a living - but believe me, for the majority of the time, they are scorned behind their backs. This after years of white rule and white oppression to the same extent now foisted on the white population. Whichever way it works in pure bullshit.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI like the Stars and Bars. It's a pretty flag in a pleasing aesthetic and Austin has made a very pretty board - that isn't an easy task to do that in a resin tint. BTW, I have owned a board with my native island's flag on it - which includes the Union Jack. I am proud of my island and my country and I am grateful to the U.S. for letting me live here too... and I also have a deep affection for the South. Not for racism - but that is hardly exclusive to the Southern States. Southerners have an enormous gentility and anyone who chooses to judge us as a bunch of racist, backward country bumpkins is as ignorant as they claim we are. The Stars and Bars? Like it. Do I fly it? No. But only because so many people mistake it for something it has popularly come to mean (even some of the people who choose to fly it). To me, it means solidarity and pride in a genteel way of life.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAs far as Austin's board - I'd think about owning it but for the people I'd have to deal with in and out of the water who took it only for it's popular and dumbed-down symbolism.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHere's the bit I found on the net... it's quite interesting. I can't attest to all of it being true but maybe it will lend some understanding?\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n>>Many southerners absolutely do not attach those meanings or symbolism (racism and slavery) to the Confederate battle flag. From their perspective, it represents something completely different.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe civil was fought over slavery, it's true - but that was only one of many issues that led up to the war. In any war, the victors paint their vanquished enemies as morally corrupt and deserving of defeat... sometimes that actually \"is\" true; sometimes not; sometimes the truth is somewhere in-between.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEconomic and social repression of immigrants; violence toward minorities; and what was euphemistically called \"indentured servitude\" were part of Northern culture before and after the civil war. In both Northern and Southern states - blacks could not attend school, hold professional jobs, vote, own their own business, or have a realistic hope of rising out of their economic and social class. Women of any race did not gain the right to vote until decades after the civil war ended.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nTo people educated in modern schools, especially in the Northern states, the Confederate battle flag stands for all the things you mentioned in your question.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe US was originally founded as a Confederation, then re-founded as a loosely-organized Federation of independent States. The concept of a strong central government in Washington, controlling the individual states, was anathema to the framers of the Constitution. This conflict of ideas about how the country should be ran was one of the main causes of the civil war. Slavery was an important issue to be sure; but contrary to modern teaching it wasn't anything like the primary cause of the US civil war (even though history books were quickly re-written to back that claim).\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAfter the war's end, the North took steps to ensure that the South would never be able to regain it's former economic strength. The South today is still poorer and generally less-educated, with inferior transportation systems and less well-developed industries - in spite of holding many more natural resources, usable deep-sea ports, and arable farm land. The victor also sent envoys to Russia, France, England, and Spain (all of which were set to normalize diplomatic relations with the South) to make sure they would not recognize the South as a separate nation. The North also used their much-enlarged army to wage a series of genocidal wars against the native American (Indians of the Western continent); conquer the natives of Alaska, Cuba, Florida, Hawaii, the Philippines, and Puerto Rico; and invade both Canada and Mexico. By objective standards, the Northern states were devoted to warlike conquest and a strong central government.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nTo many Southerners, the Confederate battle flag doesn't represent racism or treason - racism existed in the North, and minorities were economically and socially repressed there, as well as being held in \"indentured servitude\". In an odd way, many Southerners see the Stars-and-Bars as representing adherence to the original principles of limited central government for which their fathers and grandfathers fought against the British."], ["36113", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 85, "SuperKool", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T03:52:51-0500", "DownSouthSlidah\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            The US was originally founded as a Confederation, then re-founded as a loosely-organized Federation of independent States. The concept of a strong central government in Washington, controlling the individual states, was anathema to the framers of the Constitution. This conflict of ideas about how the country should be ran was one of the main causes of the civil war. Slavery was an important issue to be sure; but contrary to modern teaching it wasn't anything like the primary cause of the US civil war (even though history books were quickly re-written to back that claim).\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAfter the war's end, the North took steps to ensure that the South would never be able to regain it's former economic strength. The South today is still poorer and generally less-educated, with inferior transportation systems and less well-developed industries - in spite of holding many more natural resources, usable deep-sea ports, and arable farm land. The victor also sent envoys to Russia, France, England, and Spain (all of which were set to normalize diplomatic relations with the South) to make sure they would not recognize the South as a separate nation. The North also used their much-enlarged army to wage a series of genocidal wars against the native American (Indians of the Western continent); conquer the natives of Alaska, Cuba, Florida, Hawaii, the Philippines, and Puerto Rico; and invade both Canada and Mexico. By objective standards, the Northern states were devoted to warlike conquest and a strong central government.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nTo many Southerners, the Confederate battle flag doesn't represent racism or treason - racism existed in the North, and minorities were economically and socially repressed there, as well as being held in \"indentured servitude\". In an odd way, many Southerners see the Stars-and-Bars as representing adherence to the original principles of limited central government for which their fathers and grandfathers fought against the British.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nGood stuff DSS, all true.  I know all that I just don't see how it's still relevant today, do they still want independence (good riddance), or just states rights (depends on what they wanna use em for)?  Either way racism didn't die with the civil war, many southern states used their remaining state rights to oppress african americans through the 1960s and arguably still today.  Of course it means different things to different people, but overall it seems more bad than good to me and let's not pretend racism is dead anywhere, but especially not down South.  Not saying everyone down there is a racist *******, just a higher proportion than any other region by far (unless Idaho can be considered a region?).\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI'm not ragging on Austin for making the board, twas very well executed."], ["36116", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 86, "EcBob", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T04:16:53-0500", "DownSouthSlidah\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Best answer I could find with a short search is below.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nFrankly I am a transplant to the South from a British colony where whites are the minority and native whites are not welcome in some restaurants, are blocked (not by law but by government intervention) from selling property to other whites without first consideration going to government officials (no, not white), and deal with open hatred on the streets (on the flip side, white tourists are made to feel welcome because without them the average person would not make a living - but believe me, for the majority of the time, they are scorned behind their backs. This after years of white rule and white oppression to the same extent now foisted on the white population. Whichever way it works in pure bulls&*t.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI like the Stars and Bars. It's a pretty flag in a pleasing aesthetic and Austin has made a very pretty board - that isn't an easy task to do that in a resin tint. BTW, I have owned a board with my native island's flag on it - which includes the Union Jack. I am proud of my island and my country and I am grateful to the U.S. for letting me live here too... and I also have a deep affection for the South. Not for racism - but that is hardly exclusive to the Southern States. Southerners have an enormous gentility and anyone who chooses to judge us as a bunch of racist, backward country bumpkins is as ignorant as they claim we are. The Stars and Bars? Like it. Do I fly it? No. But only because so many people mistake it for something it has popularly come to mean (even some of the people who choose to fly it). To me, it means solidarity and pride in a genteel way of life.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAs far as Austin's board - I'd think about owning it but for the people I'd have to deal with in and out of the water who took it only for it's popular and dumbed-down symbolism.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHere's the bit I found on the net... it's quite interesting. I can't attest to all of it being true but maybe it will lend some understanding?\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n>>Many southerners absolutely do not attach those meanings or symbolism (racism and slavery) to the Confederate battle flag. From their perspective, it represents something completely different.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe civil was fought over slavery, it's true - but that was only one of many issues that led up to the war. In any war, the victors paint their vanquished enemies as morally corrupt and deserving of defeat... sometimes that actually \"is\" true; sometimes not; sometimes the truth is somewhere in-between.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEconomic and social repression of immigrants; violence toward minorities; and what was euphemistically called \"indentured servitude\" were part of Northern culture before and after the civil war. In both Northern and Southern states - blacks could not attend school, hold professional jobs, vote, own their own business, or have a realistic hope of rising out of their economic and social class. Women of any race did not gain the right to vote until decades after the civil war ended.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nTo people educated in modern schools, especially in the Northern states, the Confederate battle flag stands for all the things you mentioned in your question.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe US was originally founded as a Confederation, then re-founded as a loosely-organized Federation of independent States. The concept of a strong central government in Washington, controlling the individual states, was anathema to the framers of the Constitution. This conflict of ideas about how the country should be ran was one of the main causes of the civil war. Slavery was an important issue to be sure; but contrary to modern teaching it wasn't anything like the primary cause of the US civil war (even though history books were quickly re-written to back that claim).\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAfter the war's end, the North took steps to ensure that the South would never be able to regain it's former economic strength. The South today is still poorer and generally less-educated, with inferior transportation systems and less well-developed industries - in spite of holding many more natural resources, usable deep-sea ports, and arable farm land. The victor also sent envoys to Russia, France, England, and Spain (all of which were set to normalize diplomatic relations with the South) to make sure they would not recognize the South as a separate nation. The North also used their much-enlarged army to wage a series of genocidal wars against the native American (Indians of the Western continent); conquer the natives of Alaska, Cuba, Florida, Hawaii, the Philippines, and Puerto Rico; and invade both Canada and Mexico. By objective standards, the Northern states were devoted to warlike conquest and a strong central government.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nTo many Southerners, the Confederate battle flag doesn't represent racism or treason - racism existed in the North, and minorities were economically and socially repressed there, as well as being held in \"indentured servitude\". In an odd way, many Southerners see the Stars-and-Bars as representing adherence to the original principles of limited central government for which their fathers and grandfathers fought against the British.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nYes I think the above is well stated. If you ignore the bonehead stereotypes that do exist the whole \"Southern Pride\" thing is a very Libertarian self sufficient way of life. I know two types of people with pride in the South, the ignorant stereotypes that this thread has dwelled on(and they are definitely a minority), and the ones the above quoted talks about, and you would be happy to live next door to. Actually this thread has been very enlightening to me, because when I saw the Austin board I immediately associated it with old fashioned value of doing it on your own, and doing it right. I didn't think for a second of dawning a hood and lynching some folk. Like I mentioned above I almost brought it when picking up my board, but fortunately self control and financial responsibility kicked in and I didn't spend double what I had planned too. Locally I don't see people giving anyone grief for owning this(although we do have a pretty PC over the top nutty city council). I though definitely wouldn't carry it north of the Mason Dixon line after seeing this thread erupt"], ["36117", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 87, "SuperKool", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T04:28:23-0500", "I'm not as big a hater as I seem, just trying to ignite some southern passion.  I was a bit let down not to hear mention of the beautiful girls or the delicious barbecue brisket."], ["36118", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 88, "pilau", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T04:28:26-0500", "Gospel truth, DownSouthSlidah. This is how I was raised. This is the history I was taught in school in Texas. The war was primarily about natural resources. The north had the factories. The south had the resources. The south started to realize the power they held in that equation. There's a reason it is called The War of Northern Aggression in the south.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAlso, poidog (I think was you)...that was a heavy post about the Japanese Internment Camp. There was one of those in the town I grew up in. Super creepy."], ["36119", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 89, "mattcalvani", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T04:36:10-0500", "[No message]"], ["36120", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 90, "jdogger", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T04:37:23-0500", "Just remember that the Southern States ratified the US Constitution and when they decided to break that pact and ceceede from the Union, the result was death and suffering for thousands; both North and South.  That is what the stars and bars represents to me.  To allow the South to ceceede would have resulted in the perpetuation of slavery for who knows how long."], ["36121", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 91, "SMUKES", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T04:41:15-0500", "Moving on to Libertarians... John Birch ... Really... That's what you guys want? Hmmm, no racism there. On a trip recently to New Orleans, a feller at the rest stop at the MS / LA border engaged the dude in a conversation about Katrina, stating: \" you know, it had It's good points, it ran dem n@!!ers right outta town, we been trying ta do it fer a couple hundred years\". Now, I'd looove to say I'm makin that shit up, but well, I kinda think yer full o shit if you think that ain't what all that pride is really about. States rights... Desegregation anyone?  To be fair, I interviewed Tom metzger and his douche bag son a few years back, right here in sunny san Diego. Tom fixed tv's in rainbow, the town not so nicely asked him to leave tho. Theydve made him mayor in mississippi. Oh, guess what one of the two flags on his livingroom wall was... Nazi and what else ... Anyone?"], ["36122", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 92, "EcBob", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T04:53:00-0500", "Smukes ya got us! I'm fixin to tie a noose right now... There's rotten apples all over the place, ya can't let'em speak for the masses."], ["36123", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 93, "SMUKES", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T04:55:36-0500", "Ever notice when the topic turns to slavery amongst whiteys, someone will allllways bring up that slavery started in Africa or someone will mention the Indians. My mom would do that. In my head I was all \" fuck, so glad I'm adopted\". Any mention of MLK and shed note that he had affairs... So predictable. I run with a more international crowd now so I can add the plight of the poor Afrikaners to the list. This is interesting shit tho."], ["36124", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 94, "h2oman", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T05:03:50-0500", "SMUKES\n wrote: \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            Ever notice when the topic turns to slavery amongst whiteys, someone will allllways bring up that slavery started in Africa or someone will mention the Indians. My mom would do that. In my head I was all \" f#%k, so glad I'm adopted\". Any mention of MLK and shed note that he had affairs... So predictable. I run with a more international crowd now so I can add the plight of the poor Afrikaners to the list. This is interesting s&*t tho.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tAnother mindless post from the high and almighty Cali surf dude himself."], ["36125", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 95, "SuperKool", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T05:03:59-0500", "run.haole.run\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            The south had the resources.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\nsunshine, soil, and slaves?"], ["36126", "430", "Some stuff I have been working on.", 96, "Kaholo", "Feb 13, 2012", "2012-02-13T05:06:30-0500", "SuperKool\n wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n            I'm not as big a hater as I seem, just trying to ignite some southern passion.\n        \n\n\nClick to expand...\n\n\n\n\n\tYes you are, go back and read your posts. \n\n\n\nNice backstroke though."]], "truncated": false, "filtered_table_rows_count": 193, "expanded_columns": [], "expandable_columns": [[{"column": "thread_id", "other_table": "threads", "other_column": "thread_id"}, null]], "columns": ["post_id", "thread_id", "thread_title", "post_number", "author_username", "post_date", "post_date_iso", "post_body"], "primary_keys": ["post_id"], "units": {}, "query": {"sql": "select post_id, thread_id, thread_title, post_number, author_username, post_date, post_date_iso, post_body from posts where \"thread_id\" = :p0 order by post_id limit 101", "params": {"p0": "430"}}, "facet_results": {}, "suggested_facets": [{"name": "post_date", "toggle_url": "http://surf-archive.org/surfing/posts.json?thread_id=430&_facet=post_date"}], "next": "36126", "next_url": "http://surf-archive.org/surfing/posts.json?thread_id=430&_next=36126", "private": false, "allow_execute_sql": true, "query_ms": 10.555861001193989, "license": "Public Domain"}